The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.

[JoeRedskin]

Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.

I think it's a manual based on the shift sound.. so gear selection is on the driver.

driver did brake early and we'd have to know more about actual speeds and the braking system of the vehicle before we speculated that the scooter guy would've been under the car

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.

The car driver has an obligation to do everything he can to avoid hitting the scooter, I'm not convinced he did that. I think he had enough time to avoid hitting him. I would say 75/25, scooter guy at fault

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The car driver has an obligation to do everything he can to avoid hitting the scooter, I'm not convinced he did that. I think he had enough time to avoid hitting him. I would say 75/25, scooter guy at fault

Everything reasonable - which means he doesn't have to put his or anyone else's life in danger. Could he have swerved? maybe. But if he goes right, what if scooter continues that way? Could he swerve left? dunno, maybe scooter guy goes that way to avoid, or there is a car approaching from behind. He was presented with an unreasonable and unexpected condition by scooter guy. He can't alter the time space continuim to stop on a dime and he doesn't have to be omniscient so that he can know what jerk move the scooter guy will do next.

I'll give you 95-5 but not much more than that - and only that grudgingly.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Everything reasonable - which means he doesn't have to put his or anyone else's life in danger. Could he have swerved? maybe. But if he goes right, what if scooter continues that way? Could he swerve left? dunno, maybe scooter guy goes that way to avoid, or there is a car approaching from behind. He was presented with an unreasonable and unexpected condition by scooter guy. He can't alter the time space continuim to stop on a dime and he doesn't have to be omniscient so that he can know what jerk move the scooter guy will do next.

I'll give you 95-5 but not much more than that - and only that grudgingly.

He didn't need to swerve, he just needed to be a little less lackadaisical with the brakes. Unless he had someone right on his ass, he could/should have slammed on the brakes harder.

Does it really appear to you that he did everything he could to stop?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He didn't need to swerve, he just needed to be a little less lackadaisical with the brakes. Unless he had someone right on his ass, he could/should have slammed on the brakes harder.

Does it really appear to you that he did everything he could to stop?

Yes. Look (and listen) to the time it takes him to stop. I don't care how good your brakes are, the laws of physics apply here. From the lane change begins to the time driver is at a dead stop is 2 seconds. 18-20 on video. People have legitimate reaction times and the driver seemed to be acting within in them. Could you have stopped your vehicle (dead stop) in less than 2 seconds?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Yes. Look (and listen) to the time it takes him to stop. I don't care how good your brakes are, the laws of physics apply here. From the lane change begins to the time driver is at a dead stop is 2 seconds. 18-20 on video. People have legitimate reaction times and the driver seemed to be acting within in them. Could you have stopped your vehicle (dead stop) in less than 2 seconds?

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Seems that he had more than enough time to come to a quicker stop. He didn't brake aggressively enough for me. The scooter doesn't do him any favors by putting on his brakes too, but I know I've been cut off worse than that and been able to avoid hitting someone.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Seems that he had more than enough time to come to a quicker stop. He didn't brake aggressively enough for me. The scooter doesn't do him any favors by putting on his brakes too, but I know I've been cut off worse than that and been able to avoid hitting someone.

Fair enough. I just don't think the driver was being reckless. He was accelerating quickly, true enough, but - no matter his speed - brings his car to a dead stop two seconds after scooter guy begins to enter his lane. I just don't see how he could be expected to stop any faster. Especially with no signal from and braking by scooter guy.