Huddle Report Mock Draft

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skins93

I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

To address your points:

First, every report I have read from analysts, insiders and reporters who DO talk to the players is that Ramsey is LOVED in the locker room. Jansen (admittedly his best friend) has constantly stated that everyone respects him for taking the punishment, not pointing fingers and never giving up. If you can show me one statement from a player that contradicts this - please show me because I have never seen anything to that effect.

Second, this one I'll give ya, he is not the most mobile quarterback. Also, when he moves (rollouts and planned movement), he seems to lose his mechanics. I think his pocket awareness is good not great and he can shift around in it. But no, Vick he is not. But so what? Dan Marino - Not mobile, Jim Kelly - Not mobile, Tom Brady- no more mobile than Ramsey, same with Farve and Manning. Sorry, mobility not key to being a great quarterback.

Third, "a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes"?? What Spurrier offense are you talking about? Certainly not the "Fun n' Gun" which emphasizes flooding the entire field with receivers looking deep first then working back to the short pass. Spurrier emphasized low percentage passing figuring that, heck, if I hit 50% of my long balls, that's more TD's than the other side can score.

Fourth, "that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?" When the person is a qb with starting experience, has the potential for a huge upside, and in this day of cap constraints, ABSOLUTELY. To fail to consider cap costs when deciding whether to keep, cut or trade a quality (and I emphasize "quality") player would be evidence of severe front office mismanagement.

Ramsey critics MAY be right - maybe he will not develop into a quality starter. From everything I have seen and read, such opinions are contrary to talent evaluators throughout the league. The guy's only had two years and, yes, he has demonstrated some flaws (holds the ball to long, takes sack instead of getting rid of it, doesn't seem to see the field at times). But let's see what he can do under a coach who doesn't require the QB to win the game out of the gate and who knows how to win with a variety of QB's.

IMHO - Trading a quality player and quality person like Ramsey at this time and for this franchise would be a huge mistake.

[BleedBurgundy]

Well said, Joe.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though.

Right on SFT&T, for all his faults, Ramsey is one of the toughest QB's I have seen. He played on a broken foot for how long?? This factor alone ranks him high in my books and, I think, makes a huge difference to his teammates. Anyone remember how the team just quit on Jeff What's-His-Name, you know the "omigod I may be hit and it's all your fault" QB? This team will NEVER quit on Ramsey.

I don't think anyone, even his critics, can deny that Ramsey has the raw talent to be a good QB - maybe even more, but at the very least a good, quality, "I can win with you" QB. If anyone can take him to the next step and help his skills match his toughness, it's Gibbs.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I'm starting to agree with you JoeRedskin, but I think a lot of people will forget Ramsey when Losman (took Ramsey's place at Tulane) becomes a starter. From what I've read and seen, he has similar if not better arm strength than Ramsey, a very fiery field general, and much more mobile.

http://www.nflfuture.com/jplosman.html

I would love to keep Ramsey, but if we get a good enough deal with a good enough qb available, I think we need to make the trade. I say this because like I wrote before, unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possibly elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Let's not forget he's losing a lot of money sitting on the bench since most of his contract is pretty much built upon perfomance incentives. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

Unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possible elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?

I understand that Ramsey may bolt and, no matter what happens, that is a possibility. BUT, it depends on how he is treated in the next 3 years. If Brunell gets the job even if outperformed by Ramsey, Ramsey will be gone. On the other hand, if Gibbs can stroke Ramsey enough, keep him learning, AND give him the job if he earns it, then he will likely stay and the Skins get to keep two quality QB's for three years at a reasonable cost (Brunell is gone after three, his contract numbers explode in year 4 which, by the way is when Ramsey's contract expires). At the end of his contract, the Skins pay Ramsey top dollar and a little extra for sitting and learning and BAM - no QB worries for the next 10-15 years.

Drafting a new QB is always a risk. I've read the reports on Losman - he looks like a good bet BUT he is still a risk and he doesn't have the "lockeroom love" already developed by Ramsey. In fact, Losman may get backlash for being the guy brought in to replace Ramsey. Further - Gibbs said he is not trading Ramsey, if this turns out to be hot air - talk about backlash. As for the promise of continuity - well, that would just go out the door before the season even starts.

Nope. I recognize other QB's may have more potential than Ramsey, but, as I said before, for this franchise and at this time, trading Ramsey for a new QB is just a bad move.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea

The one thing that you have to take into account is Ramsey almost never had a chance to plant and look down field the defender's were in the back field almost as fast as he was, the fact is only a guy like vick, or MCnabb would be able to get away from some of those pass rushes, he had a choice start running and lose, or give himself a little extra time staying pat and taking the hit in order to let a player break free down field, I know I am very pro Ramsey, but I have to be true to my ability to read talent, and I say this kid is absolutly perfect for Gibb's, I also know that saying any player who hasen't gone out and put up big number's is going to be great will bring back sceptic's, and critisism, but that's what I see in this kid, and I am not backing off that statement, it's what I believe, and I will critisize a player in a heartbeat, I don't care who he is, If he ain't gettin the job done.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I agree with you offiss that Ramsey has a world of talent and under the right leadership with Gibbs, he's gonna be awesome. It's not like Spurrier's offense is the first one you'd choose to put a rookie into. I'm just worried about seeing the fruits of the Redskins labor leaving in a few years because of what's happened this season. Atleast we still have his best friend Jansen on the team and that will be an important factor in Ramsey staying down the road I think.