The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread

[MTK]

Of course the switch to the 3-4 has something to do with the defensive struggles. It's going to take some time to get everyone on the same page.

[Longtimefan]

Shanahan has maintained it is his hope the team will get a little better each day. He also has made it clear it's going to take time despite the fact the team was marketed as a team poised to win now.

Therefore, at this point I think it would be safe to asume some people are confused. Win now!! It's going to take time!! are contradictory on message. Based on what we've seen so far, we all know it's going to take some time to get this team where it needs to be to be competitive on a consistent basis. We need to stop kidding ourselves, I predicted an 8-8 season because I felt a four game improvement over last year would be reasonable considering the teams personell despite the coaching change, or change in schemes.

[#56fanatic]

Isn't everyone tired of the same ole message every two F'n years. Gibbs stayed for 4, and that is the longest coach we have had since Gibbs 1!! (under Danny) It is the same shit....new coach, hey its going to take time, new scheme, new players, blah blah blah. Two years go by, Danny says it was a mistake, we have OUR guy. New coach, new players, new scheme its going to take a couple of years......BOOM! in comes Danny, this guy wasn't right, but this new guy is OUR guy!! WE will win, but its going to take a year or two.

Same story every year.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Isn't everyone tired of the same ole message every two F'n years. Gibbs stayed for 4, and that is the longest coach we have had since Gibbs 1!! (under Danny) It is the same shit....new coach, hey its going to take time, new scheme, new players, blah blah blah. Two years go by, Danny says it was a mistake, we have OUR guy. New coach, new players, new scheme its going to take a couple of years......BOOM! in comes Danny, this guy wasn't right, but this new guy is OUR guy!! WE will win, but its going to take a year or two.

Same story every year.

I think you will find for the most part sans a handful of teams (Indy, NE, etc...) this is the case for most NFL teams. It is hard to win in the NFL and finding the right combo to do so is evening more difficult.

Hang in there this team is going in the right direction and is probably poised to be the most successful team under Snyder's watch. you will see.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by mredskins

I think you will find for the most part sans a handful of teams (Indy, NE, etc...) this is the case for most NFL teams. It is hard to win in the NFL and finding the right combo to do so is evening more difficult.

Hang in there this team is going in the right direction and is probably poised to be the most successful team under Snyder's watch. you will see.

I kind of have a hard time agreeing with you. Lets see what stability brings and what teams have it. Eagles..hmmm..winners every year, one of the youngest teams in the NFL. NE, Colts (hired in house, been with organization for a while, tons of draft picks) Baltimore, Ozzie Newsome in the same postion for years and gets quality picks and players every single year in the draft, New Orleans, took a two, three years to get players, but won a SB, Green bay another one that is pretty damn good with stability at the coaching spot. Look at the teams that keep their coaches in place for a number of years and let them learn instead of the owners (Danny) jumping in and getting rid of them after two years. Minnesota another one, hell they wanted to fire Chilly a couple of years ago, actually they said the same thing about McCarthy in Green Bay after a couple of years.

My point is, its getting old of a constant rebuilding effort even though they continuously tell us they are NOT rebuilding. I would be more patient if they said we are going young, develop young talent and grow our players than I am with what happens every year here. it is getting old.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Shanahan has maintained it is his hope the team will get a little better each day. He also has made it clear it's going to take time despite the fact the team was marketed as a team poised to win now.

Therefore, at this point I think it would be safe to asume some people are confused. Win now!! It's going to take time!! are contradictory on message. Based on what we've seen so far, we all know it's going to take some time to get this team where it needs to be to be competitive on a consistent basis. We need to stop kidding ourselves, I predicted an 8-8 season because I felt a four game improvement over last year would be reasonable considering the teams personell despite the coaching change, or change in schemes.

You can thank Shanahan for wasting the talents of many on our front 4. Carter had some value, now he has none.
Jarmon had some value, now he has none.
Same thing with AH. He DID make plays last year. Now he's reduced to a situational pass rusher.
Golston won't last long as a 3-4 DE. He could barely get a decent push as a 4-3 DT.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

You can thank Shanahan for wasting the talents of many on our front 4. Carter had some value, now he has none.
Jarmon had some value, now he has none.
Same thing with AH. He DID make plays last year. Now he's reduced to a situational pass rusher.
Golston won't last long as a 3-4 DE. He could barely get a decent push as a 4-3 DT.

I couldn't agree more.....As a matter of fact I've made the exact same argument myself. I was never in favor of the mad dash to switch schemes, but it is what it is and others are not lost on the point you make.

[MTK]

Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.

We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn

Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.

That wasn't what I was saying. My point was we axe coaches after two seasons without giving them a chance to actually do something. Do something with a good GM, a good talent evaluator, and players that fit that coaches style. It was all about Danny and Vinny picking players for the coach which had no business doing the evaluations in the first place. Now, hopefully we will have some continuity with Shanny and son, but we'll have to wait and see. I would have thought when Gibbs left that we would have kept things the same hiring GW, but Danny didn't like that idea and ended up with Zorn because no one else wanted to take the job.

[skinsnut]

Well never know what would have happened if GW took over after Gibbs...but if you base this on historical head coaching history...it wouldn't have been good....just like Haslett is not doing well as a defensive coordinator.
But Zorn had no history, so why not?....it was a crap shoot...emphasis on CRAP.

What bothers me is that Shanny seems to be locked in to making the same mistakes he always has....hiring bad defensive coordinators and churning them.

Also, not playing your top talent in their best position to win is kinda stupid if you ask me.

Didn't Carter and Orakpo have the most sacks in decades playing with Haynesworth in the 4-3?....imagine if we had another stud DT to add to that and stuck with the 4-3...hell...all we really needed was a FS and an OLB for that scheme.
...instead...we change essentially all the front seven to different positions and bench Daniels, Haynesworth...then we neuter Carter, keep Orakpo in a less than ideal LB spot, move an outside LB inside, and make am undersided MLB (fletch) to deal with huge Guards AND Tackles instead of a center and an occasional FB.
Come to think of it...there is only a single defensive player that has been put in a position that maximizes their natural talents....that is Landry.
Tell me where I am wrong.

[MTK]

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

Obviously you don't know how much milk costs here.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

Matty...perhaps...but spilled milk is considered gone....there is nothing other than stubborness that would prevent the Skins to go back to a 4-3 the majority of the time to maximize the defensive talent that we have.
It is called humility and good coaching....something Gibbs would have done but unlikely to be done by Shanahan.

Gibbs 2 wasn't great...but he did take a really crappy team and get them to the playoffs twice...getting the best out of your roster is what the best coaches do. Shanny needs to prove he can do that and within a week or two to give this team some hope again.

I also need to see this team fight for their coach and vice versa...they did it for Gibbs...and he took the heat for them....lets see if Shanny can create a TEAM again