Mcnabb appears to be done and he is the reason for this loss

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

After reading some stuff around the net, including King's MMQB, I've realized maybe we should question whether McNabb has worked hard enough in learning this offense. Is that the possible message that Shanahan sent out yesterday?

Is it possible that he's calling him out on his work ethic?

That's a fair question. McNabb hasn't exactly had to study his own playbook very hard for a long time. He's had a grasp on Reid's offense for years. Maybe he felt like he'd pick it up with no problem. But it's week freaking 8 and he's been a starting QB in this league for 11 years. No excuses. If he realized after week 1 or 2 that he didn't have a grasp, efforts should have been doubled immediately.

[BleedBurgundy]

I don't love the move, but I DO love that EVERYONE is accountable. There are no sacred cows on this team. Isn't this the exact opposite of the situation in Dallas?

[44ever]

Our D wasn't so hot either. I think it was just a bad game all round. I also think Shanny showed some frustration. The bye will do us good.

What is nice to see is that we do have some real talent out there. Home grown regular guys that are playing way above expectations. We need more of that from some of the others.

[12thMan]

I think this sends a horrible message to the team, Matty. Yeah, Shanny pulled Mac because he was stinking up the joint, but this has been an ongoing narrative with Shanny, which is more troubling than the fact that McNabb got yanked; that Shanahan is in charge, no questions asked. I get that the head coach is the leader and that the Redskins were in need of a culture change, but is this the change we wanted?

Just to be clear, I'm taking Shanahan over Zorn everyday of the week. Still I have my questions. How did Jim Zorn get more out of Fred Davis, serious talent, than Mike Shanahan? How did Jim Zorn get more production, albeit not very much, out of Devin Thomas than the vaunted Shanahan offensive system? For all the talk about the offensive line being worse off last year than this year, man, I don't know about that either. Save Trent Williams, it looks like we've taken a step backwards.

Shanahan took a huge risk by alienating his franchise quarterback and undermining future contract negotiations. Donovan looked off yesterday, in fact he's looked off the past three weeks. My biggest fear is that this may breach the relationship and that we're about to see yet another second round pick and the next 3-4 years flushed down the toilet.

By the way, Kyle Shanahan has been underwhelming thus far.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think this sends a horrible message to the team, Matty. Yeah, Shanny pulled Mac because he was stinking up the joint, but this has been an ongoing narrative with Shanny, which is more troubling than the fact that McNabb got yanked; that Shanahan is in charge, no questions asked. I get that the head coach is the leader and that the Redskins were in need of a culture change, but is this the change we wanted?

Just to be clear, I'm taking Shanahan over Zorn everyday of the week. Still I have my questions. How did Jim Zorn get more out of Fred Davis, serious talent, than Mike Shanahan? How did Jim Zorn get more production, albeit not very much, out of Devin Thomas than the vaunted Shanahan offensive system? For all the talk about the offensive line being worse off last year than this year, man, I don't know about that either. Save Trent Williams, it looks like we've taken a step backwards.

Shanahan took a huge risk by alienating his franchise quarterback and undermining future contract negotiations. Donovan looked off yesterday, in fact he's looked off the past three weeks. My biggest fear is that this may breach the relationship and that we're about to see yet another second round pick and the next 3-4 years flushed down the toilet.

By the way, Kyle Shanahan has been underwhelming thus far.

I have never liked the fact that his son is running the O or anypart of the team for that matter. How the hell do you fire your son if they suck at their job?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think this sends a horrible message to the team, Matty. Yeah, Shanny pulled Mac because he was stinking up the joint, but this has been an ongoing narrative with Shanny, which is more troubling than the fact that McNabb got yanked; that Shanahan is in charge, no questions asked. I get that the head coach is the leader and that the Redskins were in need of a culture change, but is this the change we wanted?

Just to be clear, I'm taking Shanahan over Zorn everyday of the week. Still I have my questions. How did Jim Zorn get more out of Fred Davis, serious talent, than Mike Shanahan? How did Jim Zorn get more production, albeit not very much, out of Devin Thomas than the vaunted Shanahan offensive system? For all the talk about the offensive line being worse off last year than this year, man, I don't know about that either. Save Trent Williams, it looks like we've taken a step backwards.

Shanahan took a huge risk by alienating his franchise quarterback and undermining future contract negotiations. Donovan looked off yesterday, in fact he's looked off the past three weeks. My biggest fear is that this may breach the relationship and that we're about to see yet another second round pick and the next 3-4 years flushed down the toilet.

By the way, Kyle Shanahan has been underwhelming thus far.

This is absolutely the change we needed. In fact I'm kinda baffled that we're even having this discussion.

I've got zero issues with Shanahan being in complete control. Do we even need to bring up the way it was before?

I don't necessarily agree with benching McNabb, but at the same time I'm more than willing to admit I don't have all the facts necessary to properly judge it. As an outsider it's easy to blast the move, but Shanahan obviously had his reasons and I'm sure we'll never know what they were exactly.

The only reason Zorn got anything out of Davis was because Cooley went down. Remember that Davis had issues picking up his offense, and he's reportedly had similar issues picking up this one too.

[BleedBurgundy]

All other discussions about whether or not it's specifically his fault or his being benched aside, I think everyone can agree that McNabb has looked like shit this year with the exception of the Houston game.

[12thMan]

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

Coughlin is still a hard ass and never stopped being one IMO -- the team just finally submitted (and would actually show up on time to meetings and whatnot) and they won a SB. Belichick won 3 SBs with that attitude. Shanahan won 2 SBs with that attitude. The list goes on, and these guys didn't learn what they know from just any old place or person.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

Shanahan is nowhere near the hard ass that Coughlin used to be, or even is now. I really don't see the comparison. Shanahan is known as being a players coach.

[MTK]

I think the breakdown Tim Ryan did during the game outlining the difference between this offense and Philly's was very good. In Philly McNabb read short to long in his progressions, here it's the opposite. In Philly it was all about short quick throws, here the plays take a lot longer to develop.

Yes he's had plenty of bad throws that you can't blame on the system, but you can definitely see he's not comfortable out there, so like it or not, the system "excuse" is a very valid one in my book.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think the breakdown Tim Ryan did during the game outlining the difference between this offense and Philly's was very good. In Philly McNabb read short to long in his progressions, here it's the opposite. In Philly it was all about short quick throws, here the plays take a lot longer to develop.

Yes he's had plenty of bad throws that you can't blame on the system, but you can definitely see he's not comfortable out there, so like it or not, the system "excuse" is a very valid one in my book.

I usually hate Tim Ryan, but that was some of the best on-air analysis that I've heard regarding McNabb's adjustment to the new offense.

[Monkeydad]

I UNDERSTAND the reason Shanny chose Grossman over McNabb. He's more efficient in the system, been in it a year longer. McNabb IS still transitioning into this offense and his accuracy has been on and off. Earlier in the game, they showed a graphic comparing the progressions in the Philly offense and this one, they are complete polar opposites. I'm not saying I agree with it though.

However, McNabb still as the arm to get us down the field quickly. I would have rather taken a chance with Donovan.

I thought he was hurt, because that Detroit D was pounding him all day. They did the same to Rex. Neither QB would have had a chance on that last play. McNabb may have held onto the ball, but he was going down too.


As for the season, we're at 4 wins after 8 weeks. It took 16 to get 4 wins last season. We're on the right track. I expected a transition season. We'll be better in the second half I believe, but even if we finish 8-8, it would be HUGE progress and we could be optimistic for the second season.

Remember, we've changed literally EVERYTHING. It's not going to be easy.

[MTK]

I don't buy the 2 minute thing at all. One season in Houston where he played in 1 game, and we're supposed to believe he's better equipped to handle things over a guy like McNabb with his resume? Good one Shanny but I'm selling that one.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't buy the 2 minute thing at all. One season in Houston where he played in 1 game, and we're supposed to believe he's better equipped to handle things over a guy like McNabb with his resume? Good one Shanny but I'm selling that one.

Well, to be fair McNabb has never really been a late-game clutch kind of guy. And saying Grossman is better at a 2 minute drill doesn't necessarily mean he's better equipped to manage the entire offense. 2 minute offense is a totally separate section of the playbook that has it's own segment of practice every week. Maybe Grossman is better during that portion? I don't know.

One way or another, McNabb got straight up benched, regardless of the reason.