To All The Liberals

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

What all the liberals on here fail to realize is that Obama did not get elected based on his legislative agenda. That stuff appeals to you and his undeniable success in enacting it fools you into believing he did what he said he was going to do because that is the stuff you care about. He did a damn fine job of getting legislation through that you all like. What he didn't do. What he has failed so miserably at is what he promised he would do when he got elected. HOPE AND CHANGE. That is a much bigger idea. Spin it however you want tonight is an affirmation that his HOPE AND CHANGE mantra was what got him elected. People are tired of all of them...they think the system doesn't work. BO promised to come and fix that. He hasn't even tried. So tonight that part of his agenda, the most important part, he was held accountable for. The Pubs will come in and do nothing to fix it and we'll be back here again in two years. Rinse repeat.

That's one way to look at it, but with all due respect I think your analysis, while partially correct, is still a little short sighted of what happened last night.

Midterms are ALL about voter turnout and which side has the most energy. Less than 50% of Americans are registered to vote. And less than 50% of THOSE people turned out yesterday. So, from state to state, you had between 23% and 30% of the population of those states determining who was going to govern the entire population of those states. This year it was unquestionably the GOP energized by the Tea Party and other right wing elements.

The spin that this was a referendum on Obama sounds good, but support for Obama's agenda, for him as a president, and for him as a person, are all fairly decent, when you ask ALL Americans. Republicans and the Tea Party failed miserably at making any real inroads in reliably blue districts, couldn't unseat a vulnerable Harry Reid, didn't make a dent in either race in California despite all the money they threw around. So the message against HOPE and CHANGE wasn't as resounding as some would like to portray it. Still the White House didn't like waking up to a Republican majority this morning. Things just got harder.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

That's one way to look at it, but with all due respect I think your analysis, while partially correct, is still a little short sighted of what happened last night.

Midterms are ALL about voter turnout and which side has the most energy. Less than 50% of Americans are registered to vote. And less than 50% of THOSE people turned out yesterday. So, from state to state, you had between 23% and 30% of the population of those states determining who was going to govern the entire population of those states. This year it was unquestionably the GOP energized by the Tea Party and other right wing elements.

The spin that this was a referendum on Obama sounds good, but support for Obama's agenda, for him as a president, and for him as a person, are all fairly decent, when you ask ALL Americans. Republicans and the Tea Party failed miserably at making any real inroads in reliably blue districts, couldn't unseat a vulnerable Harry Reid, didn't make a dent in either race in California despite all the money they threw around. So the message against HOPE and CHANGE wasn't as resounding as some would like to portray it. Still the White House didn't like waking up to a Republican majority this morning. Things just got harder.

So Obama has so much support that he could not get them to show up and vote. That makes no sense at all.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So Obama has so much support that he could not get them to show up and vote. That makes no sense at all.

It makes total sense, man. Things are rough and people aren't happy. I'm not sugar coating the results, I'm saying let's just take a deep breath and look at everything. This crap flying around today isn't based in reality or historical fact. The balance of power usually shifts during midterms. Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan went through the same thing, yet they went on to get re-elected and enjoyed prosperous terms.

We haven't seen anything this dramatic in quite some time, but we also haven't seen the country in this type of economic condition since the depression era, so I feel as though the backlash, if you want to call it that, is commensurate with the times. If the economy continues to recover and unemployment dips over the next 20 months, this guy is going to be hard to beat.

Oh for what it's worth, I said over a year ago that I thought Sarah Palin was running for President. She's looking like it more and more everyday. Thank the Lord.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It makes total sense, man. Things are rough and people aren't happy. I'm not sugar coating the results, I'm saying let's just take a breath and look at everything. This crap flying around today isn't based in reality or historical fact. The balance of power usually shifts during midterms. Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan went through the same thing, yet they went on to get re-elected and enjoyed prosperous terms.

We haven't seen anything this dramatic in quite some time, but we also haven't seen the country in this type of economic condition since the depression era, so I feel as though the backlash, if you want to call it that, is commensurate with the times. If the economy continues to recover and employments dips over the next 20 months, this guy is going to be hard to beat.

Oh for what it's worth, I said over a year ago that I thought Sarah Palin was running for President. She's looking like it more and more everyday. Thank the Lord.

I have to say that I respectfully disagree with you but I enjoy reading your post without the name calling. I don't think SP is going to run.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I have to say that I respectfully disagree with you but I enjoy reading your post without the name calling. I don't think SP is going to run.

Are you kidding? Governor Quitter is already running for Pres.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

We haven't seen anything this dramatic in quite some time, but we also haven't seen the country in this type of economic condition since the depression era, so I feel as though the backlash, if you want to call it that, is commensurate with the times. If the economy continues to recover and employments dips over the next 20 months, this guy is going to be hard to beat.

Another good point...about the Depression.

We're in a severe recession. Unemployment is sky high. A few years ago, home ownership was at an all-time HIGH, now it's at an all-time LOW. Inflation is coming next year. Energy costs are rising. The "Healthcare" bill is costing people more money RIGHT NOW and giving no benefits. They're raising taxes dramatically in 2 months DURING A DEEP RECESSION. (tax rate hikes for everyone, reduction of child credits, re-reinstatement of inheritance/death tax, lower standard deduction, etc...all from expiring Bush tax cuts they refuse to extend). Then, the President wants to pass Cap-and-Trade, meaning higher energy costs on top of the current rate increases, plus higher food/product/service costs and less jobs...


Most of working America has realized that if we don't stop this President's agenda NOW, we'll be in a real Depression. Yes, the economy was struggling when he came into office, but he's done the exact OPPOSITE of everything that needs to be done. More spending AND higher taxes...taking over companies/banks, trying to detroy free markets, especially in healthcare/insurance fields, discouraging employers to hire more...it almost looks intentional.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Buster

Another good point...about the Depression.

We're in a severe recession. Unemployment is sky high. A few years ago, home ownership was at an all-time HIGH, now it's at an all-time LOW. Inflation is coming next year. Energy costs are rising. The "Healthcare" bill is costing people more money RIGHT NOW and giving no benefits. They're raising taxes dramatically in 2 months DURING A DEEP RECESSION. (tax rate hikes for everyone, reduction of child credits, re-reinstatement of inheritance/death tax, lower standard deduction, etc...all from expiring Bush tax cuts they refuse to extend). Then, the President wants to pass Cap-and-Trade, meaning higher energy costs on top of the current rate increases, plus higher food/product/service costs and less jobs...


Most of working America has realized that if we don't stop this President's agenda NOW, we'll be in a real Depression. Yes, the economy was struggling when he came into office, but he's done the exact OPPOSITE of everything that needs to be done. More spending AND higher taxes...taking over companies/banks, trying to detroy free markets, especially in healthcare/insurance fields, discouraging employers to hire more...it almost looks intentional.

Buster, with all due respect homie, this isn't lining up with the economic data that we're seeing and have seen over the past twelve months. This is the fastest post recession recovery we've seen in a generation or better. How we go from here back to a Depression is beyond me. The auto companies have returned to viability, TARP has been repaid with interest and at a profit to the taxpayer. You know that, right? You can't cut corners when you inherit such an economy as Obama did. You have to spend and cut taxes. You know he's done that too, right?

What's troubling coming from, what I believe to be, reasonable people like yourself, GMScud (hell, I'll throw in Firstdown) and others is had we elected John McCain, the size of his stimulus program would have been very comparable in scope to Obama's. Definitely scaled down some, but he would have had to do something nonetheless. The bank bailouts weren't even optional, so I wont' go there.

I'm not economic prognosticator, but let's see how things play out over the next 12-24 months. I think the economy will be better off and not worse.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Buster, with all due respect homie, this isn't lining up with the economic data that we're seeing and have seen over the past twelve months. This is the fastest post recession recovery we've seen in a generation or better. How we go from here back to a Depression is beyond me. The auto companies have returned to viability, TARP has been repaid with interest and at a profit to the taxpayer. You know that, right? You can't cut corners when you inherit such an economy as Obama did. You have to spend and cut taxes. You know he's done that too, right?

What's troubling coming from, what I believe to be, reasonable people like yourself, GMScud (hell, I'll throw in Firstdown) and others is had we elected John McCain, the size of his stimulus program would have been very comparable in scope to Obama's. Definitely scaled down some, but he would have had to do something nonetheless. The bank bailouts weren't even optional, so I wont' go there.

I'm not economic prognosticator, but let's see how things play out over the next 12-24 months. I think the economy will be better off and not worse.

You must get all your news about Obama from his web site. Not all the tarp money has been paid back.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You must get all your news about Obama from his web site. Not all the tarp money has been paid back.

Haha...no, I actually don't visit Obama's website. Does he even have one? Or are you referring to the White House website.

Anyway, the part that has to do with banks has been largely paid back. Has every cent of it, no so you got me there.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

this isn't lining up with the economic data that we're seeing and have seen over the past twelve months. This is the fastest post recession recovery we've seen in a generation or better. How we go from here back to a Depression is beyond me. The auto companies have returned to viability, TARP has been repaid with interest and at a profit to the taxpayer. You know that, right? You can't cut corners when you inherit such an economy as Obama did. You have to spend and cut taxes. You know he's done that too, right?

Not sure what numbers you're looking at, but unemployment is almost 10%, housing is in the crapper, the Fed Reserve is printing another TRILLION, the Fed Gov't is spending like a drunken sailor just off a 6 month cruise, small businesses all over are getting crushed, and retailers are bracing for a horrible holiday season.

If the car companies are getting back to viability, it's because they're being forced to. And what did they do to become profitable....spend more....no, they cut costs and became more efficient. Why can't the Fed do that?

Big businesses are hoarding cash right now, they're not expanding or creating jobs due to the uncertainty of over-regulation and potential taxation from a D controlled Congress. Will this ease once the new Congress is seated and businesses see the Rs have enough power to stop the Obama-genda, that remains to be seen. If businesses start opening up knowing that we've got gridlock for at least two years, it should help the economy and Obama has a chance in 2012. If businesses still hold back, unemployment stays where it is, and the economy is still struggling.....it'll be another bloodbath for the Ds in 2012.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not sure what numbers you're looking at, but unemployment is almost 10%, housing is in the crapper, the Fed Reserve is printing another TRILLION, the Fed Gov't is spending like a drunken sailor just off a 6 month cruise, small businesses all over are getting crushed, and retailers are bracing for a horrible holiday season.

If the car companies are getting back to viability, it's because they're being forced to. And what did they do to become profitable....spend more....no, they cut costs and became more efficient. Why can't the Fed do that?

Big businesses are hoarding cash right now, they're not expanding or creating jobs due to the uncertainty of over-regulation and potential taxation from a D controlled Congress. Will this ease once the new Congress is seated and businesses see the Rs have enough power to stop the Obama-genda, that remains to be seen. If businesses start opening up knowing that we've got gridlock for at least two years, it should help the economy and Obama has a chance in 2012. If businesses still hold back, unemployment stays where it is, and the economy is still struggling.....it'll be another bloodbath for the Ds in 2012.

This.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It makes total sense, man. Things are rough and people aren't happy. I'm not sugar coating the results, I'm saying let's just take a deep breath and look at everything. This crap flying around today isn't based in reality or historical fact. The balance of power usually shifts during midterms. Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan went through the same thing, yet they went on to get re-elected and enjoyed prosperous terms.

Well, this Ego (Obama, not matty), seems pretty thin skinned and hasn't really dealt with losing. Lets see if he reacts like Clinton did in '94 and reach out across the aisle after mid-term defeats. If I recall Clinton did that and worked on things like welfare reform, etc.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Well, this Ego (Obama, not matty), seems pretty thin skinned and hasn't really dealt with losing. Lets see if he reacts like Clinton did in '94 and reach out across the aisle after mid-term defeats. If I recall Clinton did that and worked on things like welfare reform, etc.

Absolutely won't. He acts like a petulant child when he doesn't get his way. I fully expect the President to push back HARDER to push his plans.

He now has more "enemies" than he knew. (the American people)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Well, this Ego (Obama, not matty), seems pretty thin skinned and hasn't really dealt with losing. Lets see if he reacts like Clinton did in '94 and reach out across the aisle after mid-term defeats. If I recall Clinton did that and worked on things like welfare reform, etc.

You don't he's reached out? And why do you say he's never dealt with losing?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Well, this Ego (Obama, not matty), seems pretty thin skinned and hasn't really dealt with losing. Lets see if he reacts like Clinton did in '94 and reach out across the aisle after mid-term defeats. If I recall Clinton did that and worked on things like welfare reform, etc.

He really has no choice but to reach out to the back of the bus. Clinton had no choice and after it seemed welfare reform was popular he took the credit for it.