Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

With the #5 pick last year - what would you have done with it? Gone Winslow, trade down, Taylor? What? I'm just curious.

I would have traded it for freddie mitchell... THE PEOPLE'S CHAMP, ALL THE WAY!

[sportscurmudgeon]

The Sean Taylor Fan Club can slurp him all they want. Here is a fact.

No matter what else happened in the first 59 minutes of Dallas II last year, the Skins led with less than a minute to go. The Cowboys had the ball in their end of the field and a field goal was of no value to them. ONLY a TD would provide a Cowboys' win. The defense called was a cover-2 where the safety responsibility is to double anyone going deep and NEVER let anyone get behind them.

Sean "The Beast" Taylor got suckered in by Vinnie Testaverde - never to be confused with John Elway, Dan Marino, John Unitas or Joe Montana as one of the greatest of QBs ever to play the game - and Sean Taylor blew the assignment that gave up that TD. And at that time, the Skins had no time on the clock to recover from that blunder. Read that last sentence carefully, the correct description is "blunder".

Could the Skins have been ahead by 3 TDs at that point? Possibly. You can imagine whatever you want to imagine. Imagination is a wonderful thing because it allows you to think whatever you really want to think about any topic. ON the other hand, realilty bites. Because the reality is that the Redskins led in the final minute and ST "took it in the shorts" from Vinny Testaverde. Justify and rationalize all you want but that is what happened.


Someone else said they thought Taylor wrapped up on most of his tackles last year. If you really think that is the case, you really ought to give up your drivers' license and get a guide dog. Most of the time Taylor went head-hunting and just launched himself at the ball carrier. In fact, in that Dallas II game he cost the Skins, his futile attempt to make a play after he was totally out of position managed to take out Shawn Springs. He coudln't even manage to hit the guy in the "other colored jersey".


Sean Taylor is a fine physical specimen with lots of athletic skills who will make highlight reel plays. The problem with highlight reels is that they don't show you the boneheaded mistakes that Skins' players make which cost the team yardage and field position - - and ganes! You have to look carefully at each play in each game and not let your predilictions to slurp this guy because of his physical attributes prevent you from seeing what is actually happening out there on the field.

He's a MEATHEAD. Deal with it. Hope that his "meathead-ness" does not cost the Skins more games than his physical skills can win for them. So far, he has some catching up to do.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Daseal:

Assuming that I had done some real background checking on the players in the draft last year so that I had a good understanding of what kind of person and player I was drafting at #5, I probably would have taken Kellen Winslow Jr. - - even though I don't think that TE was nearly as important a need for the Skins with a high draft pick. I just think that Taylor is a guy who will never live up to the expectations people have for him based on his physical skills.

With 20/20 hindsight of course, I could pretend now to have been on the Ben Roethlisberger train from the beginning. But I wasn't. I thought Roethlisberger would take several years to turn into anyting useful in the NFL. He was really good right out of the gate - - and he and his team won a boatload of games.

There is probably only one GM in the NFL who would not trade Ed Reed for Sean Taylor even up and that is the one in Baltimore who already has Ed Reed.

I'll go even further; I would not trade Brian Dawkins for Sean Taylor even up if I were the Eagles GM. I guarantee that I would not trade Troy Polamalu (sp?) even up for Taylor now. No way the Cowboys trade Roy Williams for Taylor even up. And the only reason I would not trade Rodney Harrison for Taylor even up now as the GM for the Pats is that Taylor is so much younger than Harrison.

And just how is Taylor going to become an integral part of this defense if he is "working out" 1500 miles away from his teammates on the DL and at LB and in the DB? Is that the new defense that Gregg Williams is creating to be sure that no one can get behind Taylor late in the game? Lining him up 1500 miles from the line of scrimmage? BRILLIANT!!! - - as they say in the Guiness commercials...

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Daseal:

Assuming that I had done some real background checking on the play

I'll go even further; I would not trade Brian Dawkins for Sean Taylor even up if I were the Eagles GM. I guarantee that I would not trade Troy Polamalu (sp?) even up for Taylor now. No way the Cowboys trade Roy Williams for Taylor even up. And the only reason I would not trade Rodney Harrison for Taylor even up now as the GM for the Pats is that Taylor is so much younger than Harrison.

Common; all those guys have been in the league for years, you cant compare them to one another. Would you trade Rothlesberger (arguably the best player to come out of last years draft) for Brady, Manning, McNabb, Cullpepper... proaboably not. You cant compare Taylor to all those guys because they have had time to develop. Taylor may never be as good as any of the safteys you mentioned, but the reason no one would make that trade is because Taylor has only been in the leauge one year and has so much to prove.

Just like you are saying Taylor is a meathead and always will be a meathed; is just as stupid as the people who are already putting him in the HOF. The kid was a freaking rookie last year; you cant pass judgments on how a player is going to be overall after their ROOKIE season. Hell, I would go as far to say you have to wait until at least their third season to really pass judgment. Did he make good plays last year, yes. Did he make stupid plays last year, yes. You cant point to one good or bad play and tell how a player is as a whole.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Gmanc711:

Someone else here said they would not trade Reed for Taylor even up. I didn't say that. But since someone else bright it up, I thought I'd offer a different perspective on that idea. I agree that you can't compare Taylor to those other guys because they are the elite safties in the league now and Taylor is not. He might become one of them one of these days; but as of now he's not in their league.

Would I trade Roethlisberger for McNabb or Brady or Manning? Of course not. I never said that was even a remote possibliity. But if someone thinks it's a bad idea to trade Taylor for Reed even-up, they might also think one of those Roethlisberger trades is a good idea. I don't.

I agree that people CAN mature and grow up. The problem is that MOST people show signs of being in the process of doing that by the time they are 21 years old. Yes, there are some late-bloomers; I admit that. And you might want to think that just maybe there are some people who never reach a maturity level beyond a college-freshman who is rushing a frat on campus.

So tell me, what behavior has Sean Taylor exhibited since he was drafted by the Washington Redskins that leads you to believe that he is maturing and developing into a thoughtful and full human adult? Use Darrell Green as your example here. What has Taylor DONE to lead you to believe that sometime in the next 5 years he will evolve into someone who can play as well as Darrell Green on the field AND be as mature and solid a citizen as Darrell Green off the field. I can't wait to read your list of maturity indicators here.


Malcom:

If it isn't appropriate to blame someone for losing a game, then it is also never appropriate to credit an individual with a win. When Adam Viniteiri kicked field goals with virtually no time left to win Super Bowls, he did not win the game all by himself. But given the opportunity to win the game as opposed to losing it, he did something to make the Pats win the game.

John Elway is revered for his comebacks in the final two minutes of games. Remember "The Drive"? Did he do it himself? No. Could he have avoided the necessity to do it at all if he had scored more in the first 59 minutes of the game? Of course. But when it mattered, John Elway found a way to win games for his team instead of having them lose those same games.

There are hundreds of other examples I could use here, but I think you have the idea by now...

Now analyze what Sean Taylor did in Dallas II last year in this light. He had the chance to do something to assure a win; instead of doing what his assignment was, he got beat deep; that cost the Skins a win. When it came down to the end of the game and when it was make a play or go home with your head up your butt, his performance sent the Skins home with their heads up their butts.

Sure, it would never have come to that if Ramsey had thrown 9 TD passes and Portis had run for 400 yards and 5 rushing TDs earlier that day; but they didn't. Notwithstanding all those shortcomings by the offensive players that day, the Redskins were ahead with less than one minute to play and then - - what happened? Who "made the play" and who "took gas"?


For reasons that seem not to be important to the Sean Taylor Fan Club here, Joe Gibbs has made it clear that he really wants 100% participation in all the voluntary workouts this off-season. I guess that Joe Gibbs is doing that just to make himself a pain in the ass to the players because obviously it can't be all that important to ask these players to show up and work out in order to earn their salaries. He's doing that to annoy them, right?

So, with almost all of the physcially able players participating, the ones not participating stand out like a sore thumb. And can anyone here REALLY and TRULY be surprised that Sean Taylor is one of the no-shows? I have to admit that I am surprised that Santana Moss is also a no-show, but if I had to pick one starter from last year's team who would be absent, it would definitely have been Taylor - - from the time he ducked out of the NFL Rookie Seminar. I'm disappointed that he's not there but not the least bit surprised.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If you're going to go with the argument that Sean Taylor lost the game by being on the team, then this is what I say:

I'm going to repeat this one more time.

Had Sean Taylor not been on the team, the fumble that prevented the Cowboys from scoring ANOTHER touchdown would have not happened. Would someone else have blown the coverage? That's debatable.

The fact is, it is unfair to blame one player for a loss. Even in our fantasy land that is most of our minds, a team wins the game and a team loses the game. Regardless of how many points are scored and how many points are given up it is a team effort.

I also happen to be the person who needs the guide dog because I feel that you aren't one of the top 3 defensive rookies in the league by making "hightlight" reel hits.

As far as him being a meathead, there is no doubt. I use that term in a different sense meaning that he just doesn't seem like the most intelligent guy in the world.

Football is his sport and that's where his knowledge is.

I don't go knocking my garbageman because he's not a rocket scientist, so I'm not going to knock Taylor for not "seeming" to be intelligent.

If people were to survive on physical skills alone, then Brock Lesnar would have made it far in the NFL. Hell, every person on "World's Strongest Man" would be able to play.

Taylor did not cost the team games. He was a very important cog in a methodical machine of a defense.

Would I rather him be here than not? You're damn right.

[MTK]

SC, points well taken about Taylor, but at least admit his strip of Jones earlier in the game SAVED us a TD, and put the Skins in a position to potentially hold on for the win. Jones had a wide open lane to the endzone until Taylor stuck his hand in and pulled the ball loose.

Did he blow the coverage? Yeah he did, but I don't think Taylor should take 100% of the blame. It was a well executed play, and they went after an aggressive rookie safety. Hats off the Cowboys in my opinion.

[ST21]

you all them...that get them here....LOL

[Gmanc711]

Alright; I get what your saying now. I dont agree 100% with everything you wrote; but I understand where its coming from now. I misunderstood what you were saying before. I still think we should wait a little while before giving him the meathead title, but I can't really argue for some of the things he's done. Nice post.

[That Guy]

taylor had problems with his contract the week after it was done, that wasn't a big secret, but since he signed, there wasn't much he could do... at least until this august.

[That Guy]

i'm just saying you shouldn't break down and blame an entire game on one play... there were 122 other plays that also helped decide the outcome. Yes, he screwed up royally and dallas scored... but if someone else was playing FS for us, we'd have no gaurantees they would have been any better. I'm just saying that 1 play is not the entire game though, I have no problem saying taylor made a big mistake and it cost the team; I'm just saying a lot of other things could gone better to avoid that situation (coulda shoulda etc).

Its kinda like how priest holmes gets all sorts of credit for being a great RB, but without his line he wouldn't look nearly as hot. Just because he's the pointman doesn't mean he's single-handedly responsible for all the yards he racks up.

The chicago game was closer to the end zone than the dallas game, and they only needed 3 points to tie, so you can discount when he does what he should, but not when screws up (ie he gets shit for his mistakes and no praise for his good plays)...

[BigSKINBauer]

i was sitting here w/ someone and i was trying to show them how good this sight was and i came up on this discusion about taylor costing us games?

Wow i am sure that if he weren't on the field we would have won more games?

i just don't understand how we get these ideas, he played great he is great. we are comparing him with darell green! lets compare ramsey w/ baugh, and gardner w/ monk. it makes very little sense. portis w/ riggins. springs w/ green, smoot w/ green, jimoh w/ green

how can we say he lost us games, look at the plays he made in his video, he can develope. how can we complare him w/ the best players. he was first alternate to the probowl...... as a rookie. wtf more do we want. he played consitant and i remeber feeling that springs should have done something in the second game against the cow-girls. i think i repressed the play in my memory but from what i can see in my head i remeber that many reporters said that Springs ALSO messed up. he played inside and should have pushed the WR closer inside, springs let him get outside and that pushed him to far away. regardless we didn't lose the game b/c of taylor, one play that took 10 seconds of a 60 minute game.

i just thought i could show a friend how good this sight was and now i am trying to defend it.

[EternalEnigma21]

I take offense... I DO bone my sean taylor bobble head, and I AM an ass clown. And in that goddamn dallas II game, we couldnt get the pressure we usually got, we couldnt run the ball, but our short passing game was killing them. So, when we have the ball close to midfield and are forcing them to use their timeouts and we come to 3rd and 8, we shouldve stuck with what worked and kept their offense on the bench and put them away. Offense is the difference maker in the fourth quarter, you cant put all the pressure on your defense that late in the game. Especially not when you've got their backs against a wall.

I played alot of defense and its much more difficult... you have to be near perfect at least 3 times to accomplish what you set out to do. on offense you get 3+ tries to accomplish and you only have to hit once. Sean Taylor did not lose that game. Joe Gibbs lost that game.