Is locker going in the first or second?

[juskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

None taken at all and i hope you don't fell disrespected either.
I was responding to some specific statements you made that i disagree with.
Although i would rather you responded to my statements rather then quote a summary of a Senior Bowl which doesn't address the specific points i disagreed with.

If you think Locker is great i have no problem with that at all, we're all gonna have different opinions.

But, you made specific statements that i thought were untrue and addressed those specific statements:


Something is always lost in translation on internet forums and i hope you take this as a discussion not an argument.

Hail!
BTW-Re: "Youtube Highights"
Locker and many of the top prospects have entire game short-cuts available on youtube which are quite different from highlights b/c its the all the offensive plays.
Also, i've watched about 7 Washington games this year not just highlights.

I am not a Locker or Newton backer. I would hope we address the defensive line or LBer positions in the first.

I used the CBS Sports article to make a point that I am not the typical internet quote master of the media's ranting about their favorites. On the contrary, I looked at Locker's highlights and saw the same generic gamesmanship that the so called first rounders share - it looks canned ability, nothing stands out. Locker's release doesn't look any quicker than the article I used to make a comparison with Kaepernick's release.

At this point and stage of his brief career, Locker does not look like a first rounder or even a project. Just my own opinion.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by juskins

I am not a Locker or Newton backer.......Locker's release doesn't look any quicker than the article I used to make a comparison with Kaepernick's release.

At this point and stage of his brief career, Locker does not look like a first rounder or even a project. Just my own opinion.

I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.

I like them too. Just not nearly enough to take them at #10 overall... And maybe not even enough to take any in round 2. I'm still on the fence. I'd rather go LB, C, and get a QB in round 3 or 4 if we can from a traded pick for McNabb or Haynesworth.

[juskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.

But, it seems that you and others think that Locker is the best of the best assembled in this year's draft. As the article I posted points out, Locker is not the QB you think he is. If he is as good as you think he is then why hasn't he separate himself from the rest of the freshmen QBs? He can't and has not up to this point.

Maybe, just maybe, he can't get beyond his expectations. We might take a QB in this draft, but I hope its not in the first round.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by juskins

But, it seems that you and others think that Locker is the best of the best assembled in this year's draft. As the article I posted points out, Locker is not the QB you think he is.

Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.

If he is as good as you think he is then why hasn't he separate himself from the rest of the freshmen QBs? He can't and has not up to this point.

Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.

Originally Posted by Brian Floyd

Call it another solid day for Washington quarterback Jake Locker at the Senior Bowl. Over the last two practices, Locker put concerns about his shaky first day to rest, putting together strong, consistent performances at the Senior Bowl. Running through a variety of different situational drills, Locker impressed, distancing himself from the rest of the quarterbacks in Mobile, Alabama — including Nevada’s Colin Kaepernick and Ricky Stanzi.

RealGM praised Locker’s performance, noting his improved accuracy and solid mechanics on Wednesday. As expected, Locker was best working outside the pocket, where he’s free to use his mobility to his advantage.

He looks comfortable taking the snap and scanning the field. And his accuracy today was improved. On a rollout drill Locker was very confident throwing across his body and kept his feet under him when delivering the ball, something the other two QBs didn’t do once. In a red zone drill he consistently fired the ball high to the back line (as designed) with real zip but also catchable balls.

The knock on Locker was his ability to make the tough throws to the sideline, the area he had the most inconsistency. Locker struggled to square-up and deliver an accurate ball to his right side, one of the harder throws to make.

All things considered, Locker has done nothing to hurt his stock at the Senior Bowl, and may find himself rising as practices come to a close. Outside of the first day, he’s been consistent, accurate and has showcased his abilities in front of a bevy of scouts.

2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle

From a pure mechanical perspective, it's clear to see that Locker is the most well-developed of the three -- whether in shotgun or under center, he looked poised and natural dropping back, rolls out easily, and throws out of motion as well as any quarterback I've seen in a long time. Locker also has the quickest release and a compact motion that will serve him very well in the NFL.......That play was set up by Jake Locker's ability to sell hard play-action -- another skill Locker has shown this week.

Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.

Maybe, just maybe, he can't get beyond his expectations. We might take a QB in this draft, but I hope its not in the first round.

To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.

[juskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.


Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.

2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle


Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.



To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.

It all comes down to my disagreement of your talent evaluation. In my "casual fan" evaluation, Locker is not my first, second, third, etc. choice. I just don't see the hula that he demands from fans like you.

There are some opinions from the sports media that I consider to be on the money in their evaluation of talent. And those talent evaluators don't consider him a first round pick. I have seen more tangibles from lesser herald QBs.

An omission of selecting defense in the first round, IMO, would be a terrible mistake. We shall see.

Let's say we agree to disagree.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by juskins

It all comes down to my disagreement of your talent evaluation. In my "casual fan" evaluation, Locker is not my first, second, third, etc. choice. I just don't see the hula that he demands from fans like you.

There are some opinions from the sports media that I consider to be on the money in their evaluation of talent. And those talent evaluators don't consider him a first round pick. I have seen more tangibles from lesser herald QBs.

Let's say we agree to disagree.

I don't mean casual fan as disrespect, some people probably find better ways to spend there time.
I justify my excessive football watching to my wife b/c I coach.

And what hula are you talking about? Have i touted Locker in some special way? I just disagree with some specific statements you made.

I think we can all agree that Mike Mayock is one of if not the only credible draft experts? He has Locker as a top 10-15 pick.

I hope we can disagree and still be cool.

Hail!

[steveherrin]

This really scares me off of Locker, even though I've never heard of Russ Lande. Apparently he's best known for giving Brady and Bulger high grades pre-draft. He said,

"...I think Jake Locker hurt himself, I really do. There’s no question physically that he’s got all the tools. He’s got good mechanics, but his accuracy is terrible. I know I spoke to a coach today to get his opinion and he said if a guy’s mechanics are good and he’s smart enough, but his accuracy stinks then there’s not a lot you can do. You’re pretty much saying that you’re always going to have an inaccurate thrower. And if you can’t be accurate you cannot be a quarterback in the N.F.L. I think Locker hurt himself a lot this week...Aaron Rodgers, who coming out of college couldn’t move defenders. He was very good technically, he could throw the ball, but he couldn’t get the safety to move with his eyes. Now you watch him and he’s one of the best at pulling a guy [out of position to create an open area for a receiver].

That’s something that Jake Locker has improved upon, but the problem is that you can do all the work you want and improve in every area and if you’re inaccurate it doesn’t matter. That’s the problem with him. I love him. I want him to succeed – he’s a great kid – but he’s not accurate and I think that’s going to be his downfall. I don’t think he’s going to be a starting quarterback in the N.F.L."

Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com

[MTK]

Originally Posted by steveherrin

This really scares me off of Locker, even though I've never heard of Russ Lande. Apparently he's best known for giving Brady and Bulger high grades pre-draft. He said,

"...I think Jake Locker hurt himself, I really do. There’s no question physically that he’s got all the tools. He’s got good mechanics, but his accuracy is terrible. I know I spoke to a coach today to get his opinion and he said if a guy’s mechanics are good and he’s smart enough, but his accuracy stinks then there’s not a lot you can do. You’re pretty much saying that you’re always going to have an inaccurate thrower. And if you can’t be accurate you cannot be a quarterback in the N.F.L. I think Locker hurt himself a lot this week...Aaron Rodgers, who coming out of college couldn’t move defenders. He was very good technically, he could throw the ball, but he couldn’t get the safety to move with his eyes. Now you watch him and he’s one of the best at pulling a guy [out of position to create an open area for a receiver].

That’s something that Jake Locker has improved upon, but the problem is that you can do all the work you want and improve in every area and if you’re inaccurate it doesn’t matter. That’s the problem with him. I love him. I want him to succeed – he’s a great kid – but he’s not accurate and I think that’s going to be his downfall. I don’t think he’s going to be a starting quarterback in the N.F.L."

Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com

His opinion is certainly worth noting, but it's only one man's opinion

[30gut]

Originally Posted by steveherrin

Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com

I've never seen someone flat out reference Locker as inaccurate most will admit that he's very accurate on when outside the pocket or on the move.
If a QB can be very accurate on some throws how can his overall accuracy be deemed terrible?

[juskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.


Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.

2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle


Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.



To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.

Again, its whose opinion one values most. Mike Mayock is being kind when he said Locker is a top fifteen "athlete". He didn't say QB, but "in the top 15". Buyer beware: cautions, look at his attributes closely and judge accordingly.

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «

The Skins need a QB to cultivate and Locker is not that QB. He has basic accuracies issues.

If you look at the interview Mayock had with Locker and other QBs, you will see Mike is not sold on Locker. He asked Locker to comment on what others are saying about his preparation and his accuracy.

Stay away from this guy and I don't believe he is worth a first or second round pick. A Pack Ten wonder, please!

[30gut]

Originally Posted by juskins

Again, its whose opinion one values most. Mike Mayock is being kind when he said Locker is a top fifteen "athlete". He didn't say QB, but "in the top 15". Buyer beware: cautions, look at his attributes closely and judge accordingly.

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «

The Skins need a QB to cultivate and Locker is not that QB. He has basic accuracies issues. If you look at the interview Mayock had with Locker and other QBs, you will see Mike is not sold on Locker. He asked Locker to comment on what others are saying about his preparation and his accuracy.

Stay away from this guy and I don't believe he is worth a first or second round pick. A Pack Ten wonder, please!

Wait what?
Since when has Mayock been 'kind' to a prospect?
He liked Tebow last year but still gave an honest assessment.
You understand that you basically questioned Mayock's integrity as a scout/draft expert right?

Its okay if you don't like Locker.
I've said that several times.
However, when you make posts like this where you claim that Mayock is not sold on Locker because of the way he interviewed him is silly.

When you post like this be prepared to support your specifics statements.
For example you say that Locker has 'basic' accuracy issues.
But, that statement simply isn't true.
Basic accuracy suggests that the guy isn't accurate at all.
But, Locker's accuracy issues are specific.
The majority of draftniks w/ the exception of Russ Lande will admit that Locker is actually very accurate outside of the pocket and on the move.
Mayock-Who is one of the few qualified draft experts b/c he (a) knows what he's talking about (b) watches film has pin-pointed Locker's exact issue.

Locker's accuracy in the pocket goes down when his vision goes down.

[juskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Wait what?
Since when has Mayock been 'kind' to a prospect?
He liked Tebow last year but still gave an honest assessment.
You understand that you basically questioned Mayock's integrity as a scout/draft expert right?

Its okay if you don't like Locker.
I've said that several times.
However, when you make posts like this where you claim that Mayock is not sold on Locker because of the way he interviewed him is silly.

When you post like this be prepared to support your specifics statements.
For example you say that Locker has 'basic' accuracy issues.
But, that statement simply isn't true.
Basic accuracy suggests that the guy isn't accurate at all.
But, Locker's accuracy issues are specific.
The majority of draftniks w/ the exception of Russ Lande will admit that Locker is actually very accurate outside of the pocket and on the move.
Mayock-Who is one of the few qualified draft experts b/c he (a) knows what he's talking about (b) watches film has pin-pointed Locker's exact issue.

Locker's accuracy in the pocket goes down when his vision goes down.

Yo, 30gut, did you look at the link I provided you with? I never said Mayock was talking out of his rear end. Listen to what he said in that clip and stop trying to make me the "heavy" here. BTW, can you explain the bold, italicize statement you made? Again, please view the clip I provided you with coming from Mayock.

CLIP, PLEASE VIEW HERE: NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «

Accuracy is Accuracy no matter how you say it or whatever you do to fashion it. If Locker has issues in the pocket and can't hit his targets, then he is not the chosen one, is he?

Let's move on to the next QB on your want list, if you don't mind!