Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

I'm pretty sure there was a ton of sarcasm involved there.

Definitely

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Wow, facepalm. I cannot believe some people in this country are that delusional.

fd has a hard time contributing something of value to this conversation. I've chosen to ignore him until he has something constructive to say.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

fd has a hard time contributing something of value to this conversation. I've chosen to ignore him until he has something constructive to say.

You mean that calling this an illegal war is not contributing anything? His own party is saying the same thing.

[Alvin Walton]

Even Obama said it himself in 2007

YouTube - Rep. Kucinich: Only Congress Has the...

pwned!

[firstdown]

Oh come on AW your not going to hold them to the same standards that they used. This actually pretty funny except for the fact that people are dying. Hopefully they are bad people but we know innocent people will also die. What the left has bitched about for so long is what their man is now doing and they don't really know how to react.

[firstdown]

I'm sure its just a matter of a few days until we see protest like these going again.

[12thMan]

This whole dust up about the war being illegal or legal is nothing more than a few members of Congress not feeling the love from Obama. Truth is, most of them are glad the president didn't "consult" with them as they don't want to be in a pickle come election time for having approved yet another war with an uncertain outcome. I promise you if this thing blows over sooner rather than later and Khadaffy is eventually removed no one will really care and Obama, fairly or not, will look like a hero.

As far as precedent goes, and knowing Obama's style, I'm sure he studied history, among other things, to ensure he was in line with his predecessors. In 1986 Ronald Wilson Reagan bombed this very same country and even took out Khaddfy's home, without the powers of Congress backing him. Similiar ops in Bosnia and Haiti have also occured.

I just hope --really hope-- we can get out of there with no casualties.

[Lotus]

The President does not need Congressional approval for peace-keeping operations, which is what the Libya action is. The President does need Congressional approval to go to war. There is a difference.

Further, the action in Libya was mandated by the UN, rather than being in violation of UN standards like some other American military actions.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

The President does not need Congressional approval for peace-keeping operations, which is what the Libya action is. The President does need Congressional approval to go to war. There is a difference.

Further, the action in Libya was mandated by the UN, rather than being in violation of UN standards like some other American military actions.

The UN does not have the power to give our president the OK to go to war. Please read your constitution. This is not a piece keeping mission this is a drooping bombs on a sovereign nation which IS THE SAME declaring war. Don you think Obama would do this if it was happening in China? No. Why? Because they can strike back and Lybia can't.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The UN does not have the power to give our president the OK to go to war. Please read your constitution. This is not a piece keeping mission this is a drooping bombs on a sovereign nation which IS THE SAME declaring war. Don you think Obama would do this if it was happening in China? No. Why? Because they can strike back and Lybia can't.

You are confusing what is legal in Constitutional law with what is legal under international law.

The Libya adventure is being critiqued in Congress in terms of the Constitution.

The Iraq fiasco was critiqued for being illegal in terms of international law.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You are confusing what is legal in Constitutional law with what is legal under international law.

The Libya adventure is being critiqued in Congress in terms of the Constitution.

The Iraq fiasco was critiqued for being illegal in terms of international law.

My first care is that the president follows the constitution which is what he was sworn into to office to do. Then after he meets those guides then we could talk internetional law.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Further, the action in Libya was mandated by the UN, rather than being in violation of UN standards like some other American military actions.

I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.

Good points. I just mentioned Iraq because someone else did.

I definitely agree with your argument about the Arab League and Europe. Hopefully it will work out that way in the long term: we make a lot of noise on the first day (can't change that part now) but then drift into the shadows in the weeks ahead.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I definitely agree with your argument about the Arab League and Europe. Hopefully it will work out that way in the long term: we make a lot of noise on the first day (can't change that part now) but then drift into the shadows in the weeks ahead.

I hope so to.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.

Essentially this is what's taking place. France dropped the first bomb and while we are launching Tomahawks, we're also providing logistical supand intel support. I think Obama is very eager to hand this Op over to NATO and the Europeans and recede into the background.

The bottom line is this, had President Obama waited longer many on the right would have accused him of being "weak" and "dithering". Their favorite word lately. Congress would still be, at this very moment, deciding whether or not to launch, how much the cost, calling in Generals to testify. All sorts of BS drawing this out even longer. Had he gone in sooner it would have been a unilateral campaign drawing the ire of everyone, except for John McCain and Joe Lieberman. So I think he got it right based on the little Constitutional wiggle room he has as Commander-in-Chief.