Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Essentially this is what's taking place. France dropped the first bomb and while we are launching Tomahawks, we're also providing logistical supand intel support. I think Obama is very eager to hand this Op over to NATO and the Europeans and recede into the background.

The bottom line is this, had President Obama waited longer many on the right would have accused him of being "weak" and "dithering". Their favorite word lately. Congress would still be, at this very moment, deciding whether or not to launch, how much the cost, calling in Generals to testify. All sorts of BS drawing this out even longer. Had he gone in sooner it would have been a unilateral campaign drawing the ire of everyone, except for John McCain and Joe Lieberman. So I think he got it right based on the little Constitutional wiggle room he has as Commander and Chief.

Sarah the Impaler from Alaska accused Obama of just that just hours before the bombs started falling.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Essentially this is what's taking place. France dropped the first bomb and while we are launching Tomahawks, we're also providing logistical supand intel support. I think Obama is very eager to hand this Op over to NATO and the Europeans and recede into the background.

This was drawn up by the French and Brits, they're capable enough and should have been point on this IMO. My concern is that as the Arab League tempers its response in the wake of "claimed" Libyian civilian deaths, and eventually cools in its support along with the Europeans, who gets left holding the bag....US.

The bottom line is this, had President Obama waited longer many on the right would have accused him of being "weak" and "dithering". Their favorite word lately. Congress would still be, at this very moment, deciding whether or not to launch, how much the cost, calling in Generals to testify. All sorts of BS drawing this out even longer. Had he gone in sooner it would have been a unilateral campaign drawing the ire of everyone, except for John McCain and Joe Lieberman. So I think he got it right based on the little Constitutional wiggle room he has as Commander-in-Chief.

President Obama shouldn't give a $hit what the right accuses him of. He should have a clearly defined strategy here for entry (if he and his advisers deem appropriate), execution, and exit. If we've learned anything over the past decade, it should have been the last part is more important that the other two.

If he's confident enough to commit US forces, he better be confident enough to argue his position to Congress and the American people (I'm not saying he needs to wait for Congressional approval, but he needs to have a damn strong case). Believe me, I would love to see Gaddafi deposed or dead, but it isn't the best thing for his blood to be on our hands....publicly. If we were going to take him out, I'd rather it be the "rebels" with some US Special Forces "advisors" getting the assist behind the scenes. Now that this has really blown up, it is best for our national interest to get to the background quickly.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.

Arab League? The ones being overthrown? You can't be serious!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Arab League? The ones being overthrown? You can't be serious!

The Saudis, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan and Egypt (military is running the show there anyway) all have capable militaries. Not counting Egypt, I think the estimated 2011 spend of the 7 countries was $70B. They have the capability to impose a No Fly Zone in Libya without European or US assistance if they wanted to. If they were so concerned about a civilian massacre, they should've stepped in and simply requested US support.

[hooskins]

first you believe and say ridiculous stuff all the time. Hard to tell when you are joking.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hooskins

first you believe and say ridiculous stuff all the time. Hard to tell when you are joking.

So what do I believe?

[KLHJ2]

What national law did he break?

He did not declare a war and the last time I checked he was Commander in Chief. He can send the military to perform operations anywhere he wants to. He just cannot declare war without congressional approval. He did nothing wrong. Bush got away with far more.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Angry

What national law did he break?

He did not declare a war and the last time I checked he was Commander in Chief. He can send the military to perform operations anywhere he wants to. He just cannot declare war without congressional approval. He did nothing wrong. Bush got away with far more.

You have declared war when you drop bombs on another nation.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You have declared war when you drop bombs on another nation.

False. A declaration of war, politically and legally, is different from a peace keeping mission. A declaration of war is a formal gesture which has not happened in terms of Libya.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

False. A declaration of war, politically and legally, is different from a peace keeping mission. A declaration of war is a formal gesture which has not happened in terms of Libya.

So Japan did not declare war in us when they dropped bombs on pearl Harbour?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You have declared war when you drop bombs on another nation.

BS, it is not an official declaration of War. If that is the Case then we declared War on Iraq back in 2008 and I was there. I did not recieve a combat patch for that "conflict". Get a clue before you post some crap like that.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Angry

BS, it is not an official declaration of War. If that is the Case then we declared War on Iraq back in 2008 and I was there. I did not recieve a combat patch for that "conflict". Get a clue before you post some crap like that.

Did I say its an official declaration of war. I just said when you start dropping bombs on another nation you have declared war on them. The only reason people take this so lightly is because Lybia cannot strike back. If we bombed China or Japan people would view it declaring war because they have the military to strike back.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Did I say its an official declaration of war. I just said when you start dropping bombs on another nation you have declared war on them. The only reason people take this so lightly is because Lybia cannot strike back. If we bombed China or Japan people would view it declaring war because they have the military to strike back.

They wanted us to intervene. The Arab nations wanted us to intervene. The only ones that didn't was Ghadafi and his few supporters.

We are not striking at the Lybian people; we are striking down an oppressive dictator and his military who shoot innocent people who are finally standing up for themselves.

We would not need to bomb China or Japan because their officials are elected on a regulare basis. No dictators there dic*.

You are such a hyprocrite. Why is it right to invade Iraq, but not ok to Bomb Lybia? When Regan Bombed Lybia you probably put on your "Rebel-Flag, bandanna", chugged a beer, and fired your 6 shooters in the air 12 times.

[BuckSkin]

Originally Posted by Angry

BS, it is not an official declaration of War. If that is the Case then we declared War on Iraq back in 2008 and I was there. I did not recieve a combat patch for that "conflict". Get a clue before you post some crap like that.

Must have been a typo Angry, but were you referring to Desert Fox in December of 1998 instead of OIF in 2008?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by BuckSkin

Must have been a typo Angry, but were you referring to Desert Fox in December of 1998 instead of OIF in 2008?

Yes, it was a typo, I was referring to Intrinsic Action 98-03, "Operation Desert Fox".

Thanks TOP!