Snyder Camp Upset!!

[Hog1]

I heard an interview a few years ago regarding the Florida Seminoles over the same issue. The interviewer was clearly laying the ground work in the opening moments of the int with the Chief of the Seminole nation in Florida (which is big).
The objective (by the interviewer) was obviously aimed at the outrage and shame the use of the sacred tribal name had caused..........etc.
Surprisingly (and very disappointingly to the interviewer) the Chief responded that it was indeed NOT a disgrace of any kind....but an honor.
Furthermore, the Chief asked the interviewer if he had ever attended a Seminole game or event? The answer was no. The Chief then iterated that the reverence and high esteem the Seminole fans held for his tribes namesake was something to behold. The Chief was clearly pleased with that notion.

[Jontrem]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I heard an interview a few years ago regarding the Florida Seminoles over the same issue. The interviewer was clearly laying the ground work in the opening moments of the int with the Chief of the Seminole nation in Florida (which is big).
The objective (by the interviewer) was obviously aimed at the outrage and shame the use of the sacred tribal name had caused..........etc.
Surprisingly (and very disappointingly to the interviewer) the Chief responded that it was indeed NOT a disgrace of any kind....but an honor.
Furthermore, the Chief asked the interviewer if he had ever attended a Seminole game or event? The answer was no. The Chief then iterated that the reverence and high esteem the Seminole fans held for his tribes namesake was something to behold. The Chief was clearly pleased with that notion.

I had always heard that FSU did an admirable job in honoring the Seminoles. Pretty cool that they were able to make the tribe part of the process and celebrate their tradition.

[SmootSmack]

I'll just repost what I did a couple of years ago when we talked about a name change for the Redskins:

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll just repost what I did a couple of years ago when we talked about a name change for the Redskins:

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

Great points SS. I wish there could be an objective summit of sorts to hash this issue out w/various Native American groups & point out the things you mention, especially the use of 'Redskins' by N. american sports teams. Unfortunately, I think as long as Snyder owns the team, any kind of reaching out to those groups that he might do, would be construed as subjective.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll just repost what I did a couple of years ago when we talked about a name change for the Redskins:

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

This is an OUTSTANDING post! I especially like the line in bold because a word has no inherent meaning, it is what we all say it is. When the vast majority of people hear the word "Redskins" they think of the football team the same way that when the vast majority of people hear the word "cracker" they think of a snack food.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

This is an OUTSTANDING post! I especially like the line in bold because a word has no inherent meaning, it is what we all say it is. When the vast majority of people hear the word "Redskins" they think of the football team the same way that when the vast majority of people hear the word "cracker" they think of a snack food.

No you didn't, I know you just did not compare a racist term with a snack food???

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

No you didn't, I know you just did not compare a racist term with a snack food???

crack·er (krkr)
n.
1. A thin crisp wafer or biscuit, usually made of unsweetened dough.
2. One that cracks, especially:
a. A firecracker.
b. A small cardboard cylinder covered with decorative paper that holds candy or a party favor and pops when a paper strip is pulled at one or both ends and torn.
c. The apparatus used in the cracking of petroleum.
d. One who makes unauthorized use of a computer, especially to tamper with data or programs.
3. Offensive
a. Used as a disparaging term for a poor white person of the rural, especially southeast United States.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a white person.

[MTK]

The name isn't going to change. This has been going on forever now. It's doubtful it will ever gain enough traction to happen.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The name isn't going to change. This has been going on forever now. It's doubtful it will ever gain enough traction to happen.

Within 10 years the name will have changed. It will be DS's last ditch attempt at good PR.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

Within 10 years the name will have changed. It will be DS's last ditch attempt at good PR.

Anytime the name/logo/trademark has been challenged, the courts have ruled in the team's favor. Good PR is not worth what the team would stand to lose in terms of lose of revenue over changing the brand and overall identity. All the good PR the franchise needs is to win games.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Anytime the name/logo/trademark has been challenged, the courts have ruled in the team's favor. Good PR is not worth what the team would stand to lose in terms of lose of revenue over changing the brand and overall identity. All the good PR the franchise needs is to win games.

I personally dont have a problem with the name and dont care what the team is called.

The name wont be changed because of a court challenge it will be done a PR move as a way to take the organization in a new direction. If anything I think the team will gain in revenue as everyone will head out to the stores to buy new gear and identity because the way things are going the Redskins arent really viewed as one of the NFL's better brands.

[Hog1]

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor

[Hog1]

Washington...........wizards...sick
AND I heard the other day, they are thinking of changing it back to Bullets? I guess it is no longer offensive to have an object of death and destruction representing your team?
PC.......go figure.........

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Washington...........wizards...sick
AND I heard the other day, they are thinking of changing it back to Bullets? I guess it is no longer offensive to have an object of death and destruction representing your team?
PC.......go figure.........

I really don't see any problem with Washington changing the name back to the Bullets. A bullet itself isn't going to cause death and destruction, it's the one pulling the trigger. Let's also remember that Lions, Tigers, and Bears (OH MY) can also cause death and destruction.....Jaguars as well! So, that can't, or at least shouldn't be a reason to change the name of a team.

In regards to the Redskins, just as what SmootSmack had posted, is pretty much the way I feel. The word is not used in a disparaging manner in today's society. Words change meanings. I believe just as some regular words turn into disparaging words throughout the years, I think the exact opposite can easily happen as well.

As being a fan, I don't believe I could ever get used to any other moniker except for one that would describe an American Indian. "The Washington Warriors"....I could probably live with that, or even the Washington Braves, but I would much rather keep it the Washington Redskins.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I really don't see any problem with Washington changing the name back to the Bullets. A bullet itself isn't going to cause death and destruction, it's the one pulling the trigger. Let's also remember that Lions, Tigers, and Bears (OH MY) can also cause death and destruction.....Jaguars as well! So, that can't, or at least shouldn't be a reason to change the name of a team.