Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Again, I was not saying that Pres. Bush's actions as president aren't relevant. But to tell a person who is commenting on a current president to "give it a rest", while bashing a former president (probably for the thousandth time) is hilarious to me.

Good point, how 'bout we stick to the topic, and quit bashing current and former presidents.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Good point, how 'bout we stick to the topic, and quit bashing current and former presidents.

Why? thats just good fun. Not sure if anyone has noticed but gas has jumped 25 cents or more in just one week. I guess Obama is MR Big Oil himself.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Why? thats just good fun. Not sure if anyone has noticed but gas has jumped 25 cents or more in just one week. I guess Obama is MR Big Oil himself.

Maybe we should invade an oil producing country to fix that...oh wait, that didn't work before.

[Tiggwin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Maybe we should invade an oil producing country to fix that...oh wait, that didn't work before.

well Ruhskins while your comment at face value is true... we did invade an oil producing country... but underneath you are blatantly incorrect. We didnt invade with the intent to conquer/colonize... we invaded under the threat of WMD's and we liberated a people from a brutal dictator. If we had wanted to conquer and colonize we would be controlling their oil... but instead being the "Freedom" loving nation that we are we let the Iraqi people bid out their oil rights to the highest bidder... we didnt "Take" their oil.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Tiggwin

well Ruhskins while your comment at face value is true... we did invade an oil producing country... but underneath you are blatantly incorrect. We didnt invade with the intent to conquer/colonize... we invaded under the threat of WMD's and we liberated a people from a brutal dictator. If we had wanted to conquer and colonize we would be controlling their oil... but instead being the "Freedom" loving nation that we are we let the Iraqi people bid out their oil rights to the highest bidder... we didnt "Take" their oil.

Please tell me that you do not believe this obsolete propaganda.

Iraq had no WMD's. Iran and N.Korea did in 2003. So if we were going to invade to dismantle WMD's, we invaded the wrong place.

As for "brutal dictators," by 2003 Saddam had been thoroughly neutered by UN sanctions and did not really control 2/3 of the country. So in 2003 he was still "brutal," but hardly a powerful dictator. But there were other brutal dictators who were more powerful. If we just wanted to dismantle the rule of a brutal dictator, we picked the wrong place.

Apparently you are not aware that the Iraqi oil industry was rebuilt by Halliburton, Cheney's company. So while we did not colonize Iraq or steal their oil, Cheney made a mint off of the invasion.

Further, both Bush and Cheney are heavily invested in several military industries. Every bullet and every shell that we fired in Iraq lined Bush and Cheney's pockets. Remember when the Halliburton subsidiary KBR was caught red-handed charging outrageous fees for meals, laundry, etc., for soldiers?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Please tell me that you do not believe this obsolete propaganda.

Iraq had no WMD's. Iran and N.Korea did in 2003. So if we were going to invade to dismantle WMD's, we invaded the wrong place.

As for "brutal dictators," by 2003 Saddam had been thoroughly neutered by UN sanctions and did not really control 2/3 of the country. So in 2003 he was still "brutal," but hardly a powerful dictator. But there were other brutal dictators who were more powerful. If we just wanted to dismantle the rule of a brutal dictator, we picked the wrong place.

Apparently you are not aware that the Iraqi oil industry was rebuilt by Halliburton, Cheney's company. So while we did not colonize Iraq or steal their oil, Cheney made a mint off of the invasion.

Further, both Bush and Cheney are heavily invested in several military industries. Every bullet and every shell that we fired in Iraq lined Bush and Cheney's pockets. Remember when the Halliburton subsidiary KBR was caught red-handed charging outrageous fees for meals, laundry, etc., for soldiers?

See you get your news from the far left democrate sites. Please give us those links showing how Bush and Cheney made money off the war as you describe. You do know Cheney sold any interest he had in Haliburton before he became VP. Here I will help you.

FactCheck.org: Kerry Ad Falsely Accuses Cheney on Halliburton

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by firstdown

See you get your news from the far left democrate sites. Please give us those links showing how Bush and Cheney made money off the war as you describe. You do know Cheney sold any interest he had in Haliburton before he became VP.

Nope. I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I do not go to far left sites. I get my news, daily, from The New York Times and other independent outlets.

I have tried to find links but they are buried under crap, given the the stories I referenced are now 8 or so years old. I do not have time to dig for news that anyone could have read before had they been paying attention.

BTW In office Cheney remained a "consultant" for Halliburton and then apparently re-deepened his involvement after leaving office.

You also forget about Bush/Cheney complicity in the war industries Carlyle Group and Bechtel Corp.

The Iraq war was not about a dictator or WMD's, as was indicated above. Like most wars, it was about the greed of powerful people.

[Tiggwin]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Please tell me that you do not believe this obsolete propaganda.

Iraq had no WMD's. Iran and N.Korea did in 2003. So if we were going to invade to dismantle WMD's, we invaded the wrong place.

As for "brutal dictators," by 2003 Saddam had been thoroughly neutered by UN sanctions and did not really control 2/3 of the country. So in 2003 he was still "brutal," but hardly a powerful dictator. But there were other brutal dictators who were more powerful. If we just wanted to dismantle the rule of a brutal dictator, we picked the wrong place.

Apparently you are not aware that the Iraqi oil industry was rebuilt by Halliburton, Cheney's company. So while we did not colonize Iraq or steal their oil, Cheney made a mint off of the invasion.

Further, both Bush and Cheney are heavily invested in several military industries. Every bullet and every shell that we fired in Iraq lined Bush and Cheney's pockets. Remember when the Halliburton subsidiary KBR was caught red-handed charging outrageous fees for meals, laundry, etc., for soldiers?

Ok Lotus now go back and re read what I wrote... the statement Ruhskins made was that we invaded to steal their oil... I simply corrected Ruhskins by saying that we didnt invade to steal oil... if we had why dont we have it?? We went in "under the threat" of WMD's... I didnt say that we found any first off... and secondly if you think the UN neutered Saddam in any way you are grossly mistaken... As a matter of fact Russia, France as well as Germany all 3 still had oil contracts with Saddam that directly violated the UN Sanction of Oil for Food. Also during the whole Monica Lewinski scandal in 1998 Saddam kick the weapons inspectors out of Iraq so for more than 5 yrs we had not monitored their weapons programs so when the NIE came across Bush's desk in February of 2003 stating that Iraq HAD purchased or ATTEMPTED to purchase Urainium yellowcake from Niger we couldnt verify whether he did or didnt. Now to Bush's credit he spent 13 months trying to get Saddam to allow weapons inspector back in so we could verify what programs he did or didnt have... he balked at us and refused. Bush finally made a stand and told Saddam that if we didnt have weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq by March of 2003 that we would attack.. Saddam continued to "Stand defiantly in the face of the US!!" Im sure you remember all of those headlines in the USA Today etc... all the papers ran it as a cover page headline... I was in the first Persian Gulf War and I knew when we left that we would have to go back... it was just a matter of how long would it take. In the future read what I have written before you just automatically assume Im on one side or the other.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Tiggwin

Ok Lotus now go back and re read what I wrote... the statement Ruhskins made was that we invaded to steal their oil... I simply corrected Ruhskins by saying that we didnt invade to steal oil... if we had why dont we have it?? We went in "under the threat" of WMD's... I didnt say that we found any first off... and secondly if you think the UN neutered Saddam in any way you are grossly mistaken... As a matter of fact Russia, France as well as Germany all 3 still had oil contracts with Saddam that directly violated the UN Sanction of Oil for Food. Also during the whole Monica Lewinski scandal in 1998 Saddam kick the weapons inspectors out of Iraq so for more than 5 yrs we had not monitored their weapons programs so when the NIE came across Bush's desk in February of 2003 stating that Iraq HAD purchased or ATTEMPTED to purchase Urainium yellowcake from Niger we couldnt verify whether he did or didnt. Now to Bush's credit he spent 13 months trying to get Saddam to allow weapons inspector back in so we could verify what programs he did or didnt have... he balked at us and refused. Bush finally made a stand and told Saddam that if we didnt have weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq by March of 2003 that we would attack.. Saddam continued to "Stand defiantly in the face of the US!!" Im sure you remember all of those headlines in the USA Today etc... all the papers ran it as a cover page headline... I was in the first Persian Gulf War and I knew when we left that we would have to go back... it was just a matter of how long would it take. In the future read what I have written before you just automatically assume Im on one side or the other.

Please update your information:

1) I agree that your were responding to Ruh's claim about oil. I did read your post. But you went on to talk about WMD's, which was mistaken. I responded to that.

2) There were UN weapons inspectors in Iraq until the bombs started dropping in March 2003. Bush, however, was too impatient to let them do their work.
Weapons Inspectors Leave Iraq - CBS News

Also, your view fails to take into account that if we wanted to stop the spread of WMD's, Iran and N.Korea were obviously better targets.

3) The claim about the purchase of uranium from Niger proved to be hoaxed. CIA director George Tenet told the White House that the documents were false yet the White House continued to make the claim. Joe Wilson revealed the hoax. Then, in retaliation, a senior Bush administration official "outed" his wife Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, thus effectively ending her career in the field.
Niger uranium forgeries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of this is why I said that you were the victim of "obsolete propaganda."

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Maybe we should invade an oil producing country to fix that...oh wait, that didn't work before.

That was just a fabrication of the left and never the reason for the war.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

That was just a fabrication of the left and never the reason for the war.

Neither was WMDs.

Once again, reason nothing gets done in this country, people are too busy sticking to their party line and don't know much about compromise. Each side blindly bitches about the other side. For every complaint that the left makes, you can find a similar complain from the right and vice versa. And for every f*ck up the right makes, you can find something similar from the left.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Good point, how 'bout we stick to the topic, and quit bashing current and former presidents.

yeah that was actually the context of the "give it a rest" comment, probably should have said stick to the topic. It was right after the thread title change and FD couldnt wait to blame Obama for Oil prices. Still relevant as a result of whats going on, but not directly. Had to reference the short term memeory issue, but bottomline...presidents really cant do anything about it oil price. But when it comes to policy and alternatives to foreign oil, yeah something can be done.