8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It definitely is. Even in this thread there have been people commenting on it. For a lot of people, professional athletes were handed a gift to play sports and take it totally for granted. There are many people out there who don't think it takes any effort to be a pro athlete and there are no long term repercussions, or better said, they deserve whatever repercussions there are because hey, they chose to play the game. A game we all wish we could play.

SmootSmack - To the extent that people assert players have been handed a gift and should be grateful for it - Well, in the larger sense, they have (I could work my ass off and never ever ever have the ability to make an NFL practice squad) and they should be grateful (just as we all should be for whatever gifts/talents we have that are in no way attributable to anything we did for ourselves). However, IMHO, that is in no way relevant to the argument that the players are entitled to whatever compensation for their skills that they can obtain. It's just business baby.

If the argument that "players are just playing a game" is really being made as to why any one should side with the owners, I would disagree heartily - these are highly skilled employees who must work hard at their craft to maintain employment. Gifted or not, the players (as a whole and a very few in particular) are massive wealth generators for their employers and have a right to be leverage that ability to maximize their earnings.

NC_Skins - Neither of those illustrations are illustrations of players are "just playing a game" and, therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. Rather, it's illustrative of the concept that "players are just employees and business owners have the right to run their own businesses as they see fit." It is simply people who side with employers rather than employees. You hate big corporations, they are always evil, and it is okay to manipulate the law to stick it to them. Two wrongs make a right as long as the second wrong is the little guy wronging a corporation/rich guy. We get it.

I know you think players are the game, sacrosanct, irreplaceble etc. but the bottom line is that they are just employees (incredibly talented and gifted employees, but employees nonetheless - I doubt they could even be considered "independent contractors" under the relevant labor laws), they are not the game (w/out the capital investment, marketing and business plan of the owners - these guys are not splitting up 9.0 Billion), and they are, ultimately, replaceable over the long term (again, did you stop rooting for the B&G when your favorite player left/retired? Didn't think so). If the owners/employers want to cut off their nose to spite their face, that makes them stupid not evil. If players want to do the same, same is true of them.

As has been said, if these two groups can't figure out how to cut 9.0 Billion w/out killing the goose that laid the golden egg, well, then f'em.

[SmootSmack]

I'm not saying you are making the argument the players are just playing a game. I'm just saying there are many people who side with the owners primarily for that reason

[NLC1054]

Like I said; De Smith is just CRAP about the public relations aspect of this whole mess. The owners have very clearly set themselves up as the victims in this mess.

And what does De Smith do and say? He talks about how we all "dig" then game and makes a speech at the university that was more a dig at the NFL than a speech FOR THE GRADUATES, and says "you suck".

Dude, you are not being hip and with it you pompous douchenozzle, you are hurting your position, the public perception of you clients, and making yourself seem really stupid.

After this, I'm really not sure De Smith stays on as head of the NFLPA much longer. The only hired him in preparation of the lockout. Now they're in the lockout and he's makin' stuff worse.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not saying you are making the argument the players are just playing a game. I'm just saying there are many people who side with the owners primarily for that reason

Okay. I get the distinction - on that point, I am with you and agree that it is a BS reason for siding with the owners. I probably disagree with you on the extent of that perception but won't deny it does exist.

[CRedskinsRule]

I gotta say, sounds like hopeful stuff coming off these meetings. Sirius said, and I don't know that it's a fact, that Judge Boylan may have been involved in these secret meetings, and many players, and owners. I hope that we see a lot of progress over the next week or two. Especially with the court ordered mediation next week, a risky court hearing tomorrow, and no word from Doty's court. I would like to think both sides are finally starting to really get serious about finding that common ground they need to get a deal done.

[JoeRedskin]

I would hope so CRed, but, just like a beautiful woman, 9 billion dollars can make otherwise reasonable men be all kinds of stupid. (See, see ... pithy, short and relevant. It can be done!!).

[SmootSmack]

Didn't realize there was actually a story up about it

AP source: Goodell, Smith, players meeting - seattlepi.com

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Didn't realize there was actually a story up about it

AP source: Goodell, Smith, players meeting - seattlepi.com

That story kinda makes it sound like Judge Boylan did call the meeting. If so then I am a little less hopeful, mainly cuz I thought the two sides had put it together. Any meetings can't be al bad though.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

That story kinda makes it sound like Judge Boylan did call the meeting. If so then I am a little less hopeful, mainly cuz I thought the two sides had put it together. Any meetings can't be al bad though.

I'm not sure that's accurate. I mean I know it's what the AP is saying, but I've heard from others he's just there he didn't call it and he's not mediating it or anything like that

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure that's accurate. I mean I know it's what the AP is saying, but I've heard from others he's just there he didn't call it and he's not mediating it or anything like that

Nevermind

NFLLabor.com NFL-NFLPA statement «

[NC_Skins]

I'm still down for Smith and Goodell fighting 1v1 gladiator style. Winner take all. Hell, they can pay-per-view it. Even hold it at beloved Jerry World(minus broken seats).

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I'm still down for Smith and Goodell fighting 1v1 gladiator style. Winner take all. Hell, they can pay-per-view it. Even hold it at beloved Jerry World(minus broken seats).

Lol, that would actually be a good crappy fight. And yes you read that right. I doubt both of them could really fight and would probably just end up in a bunch of grapples that lead no where, but they both look somewhat physically imposing. At least more then your average bloke.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Lol, that would actually be a good crappy fight. And yes you read that right. I doubt both of them could really fight and would probably just end up in a bunch of grapples that lead no where, but they both look somewhat physically imposing. At least more then your average bloke.

[SBXVII]

NLC1054,
[QUOTE]It's not as if the owners are eating all the cost here. A majority of the players in the league aren't millionaires. They lead middle-class to upper middle class lives. They still have to pay bills, pay for child care, and in some cases, have to pay for extended family as well. They're not exactly poor, but when you factor in all their cost, they're not the ballers that the guys who get the endorsement deals and the top tier athletes are.
/QUOTE]

Be honest, there is nothing "middle class" about their lives. Even the lowliest of checks is a whopping $400,000 plus. That is not middle class.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

NLC1054,

Be honest, there is nothing "middle class" about their lives. Even the lowliest of checks is a whopping $400,000 plus. That is not middle class.

Closer to $300k actually, which is still a lot. But that's assuming you make the active roster