Obama Endorses 1967 Border For Palestinian State

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Yup. I think this is his point. It is such huge concession by Israel at this point, they have invested so much political capital in a unified Jerusalem and protection of the WB Settlements. Whereas, 20-30 years ago, you could say reasonably say that arab aggression and a determination to literally wipe Israel off the map was the real obstruction to peace, I think it is now Israel's dogged committment to Jerusalem and the WB Settlements that stands in the way of a lasting peace.

12th - Do you think the Arab world, as a whole, has come to accept the existence of Israel and, as a practical matter, no longer seeks its obliteration as a national entity? Is Arab factionalism over or is the Arab Spring just a replay/repackaging of Arab nationalism from the 50's and 60's? If not, what do you see as the main differences - how will the Arab world avoid the factionalism that destroyed the original "Arab Spring" (which created most of the regimes now being subject to popular protests)?

It's been two or three (four?) generations since the Jews essentially did a land grab (yes, yes, an incredible oversimplification, I know - but the Brits left 'cause they couldn't/wouldn't resolve the Arab/Jewish question in Palestine Mandate and, once they did, the Jews resolved it for them - with guns). Is that enough time for wounds to heal and reality to set in? Are the people behind the Arab Spring looking forward with an acceptance of Israel? Unlike the prior nationalistic movement of the 50's & 60's, I just don't see the Arab world rallying 'round the poor displaced Palestinians.

Ultimately, I think a corner has been turned in the Arab world. The question to me is whether or not Israel will get past its well earned paranoia/ skepticism about peaceful intentions from the Arabic world and find a way to w/draw from the West Bank entirely.

I wanted to add one more thing: I do not think that the Arab world, as a whole, will recognize Israel's right to exist as sovereign entity, but so what. There will ALWAYS be extremist and fundamentalist that deny Israel of the right to exist.

I wouldn't understimate the power of the internet and the use of facebook and twitter. It may sound corny, but I think the internet has made the idea of freedom and democracy more accessible and attainable. The idea of a state controlled media is outdated and can no longer be used to brainwash and manipulate people. I believe a diversity of ideas, opinions, and political views have emerged as a result of this.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I wanted to add one more thing: I do not think that the Arab world, as a whole, will recognize Israel's right to exist as sovereign entity, but so what. There will ALWAYS be extremist and fundamentalist that deny Israel of the right to exist.

I wouldn't understimate the power of the internet and the use of facebook and twitter. It may sound corny, but I think the internet has made the idea of freedom and democracy more accessible and attainable. The idea of a state controlled media is outdated and can no longer be used to brainwash and manipulate people. I believe a diversity of ideas, opinions, and political views have emerged as a result of this.

There is nothing corney about that and dictators cannot block their flock any longer from the rest of the world. But just remember it was Bush who said if you introduce democracy to the middle east it will spread.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

There is nothing corney about that and dictators cannot block their flock any longer from the rest of the world. But just remember it was Bush who said if you introduce democracy to the middle east it will spread.

Thank God for George W. Bush.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Thank God for George W. Bush.

I knew you would come around.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I wanted to add one more thing: I do not think that the Arab world, as a whole, will recognize Israel's right to exist as sovereign entity, but so what. There will ALWAYS be extremist and fundamentalist that deny Israel of the right to exist.

I'm a bit less optimistic than you on this. The problem is the fundamentalists in the Middle East are not extremists or fringe elements.

Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Global Attitudes Project

If Hamas and Hezbollah had their way, Israel wouldn't exist and their people would be under the rule of Sharia Law. In which case Jews would either be forced to convert to Islam, leave, be killed or forced into dhimmi status.

.....the internet has made the idea of freedom and democracy more accessible and attainable. The idea of a state controlled media is outdated and can no longer be used to brainwash and manipulate people. I believe a diversity of ideas, opinions, and political views have emerged as a result of this.

I agree and sincerely hope the idea of Freedom of Religion expands and grabs hold of a much wider audience in the Middle East. When the rockets stop falling on the Israeli people and Christians are not murdered with little or no repsonse from the governments in the region than we are making moves in the right direction.

We've been through this "peace process" before yet not much has changed regarding religious intolerance and violence toward non-Muslims in the Middle East.

[mlmpetert]

Hopefully a condition of turning land over to Palestine will be that the PA will have to stop doing this:

New Palestinian Law Grants Salaries and Benefits to…Violent Terrorists | The Blaze

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Hopefully a condition of turning land over to Palestine will be that the PA will have to stop doing this:

New Palestinian Law Grants Salaries and Benefits to…Violent Terrorists | The Blaze

Or perhaps maybe instead of making that a condition we could just stop giving aid to these people?

Palestinian Authority Using U.S. Aid to Help Pay Millions in Salaries to Jailed Terror Suspects, Report Finds - FoxNews.com

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Or perhaps maybe instead of making that a condition we could just stop giving aid to these people?

Palestinian Authority Using U.S. Aid to Help Pay Millions in Salaries to Jailed Terror Suspects, Report Finds - FoxNews.com

No wonder they like Obama so much.