Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Come on, sir. That argument is weak sauce. Ngata and Haynesworth played completely different positions.

Calling the facts from 2009 weak sauce is a good arguement?
Haynsesoworth played DT in 2009 much harder to get sacks as DT then a 3-4End.
But, even sack total aside how but snaps played?
You can believe whatever you want, but the stats support that Haynesworth played well in 2009.

Now, I will concede that having Haynesworth in there helped the rest of the defense get their sacks by getting double teams, which opened things up for other pass rushers.

Agreed.

But he still pulled himself off the field. Playing in 12 games and then leaving some of those twelve games early?

In 2009? When did he pull himself off the field? And how did he leave early in those 12 games yet amass such a high % of snaps played?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Baller? Dude played 12 games in 2009. And even then he frequently got "hurt". He had 4 sacks. The whole defense had 40. This isn't a one year thing. If giving him respect means letting him do whatever he wants...I don't want that guy.

thank you.

[Beemnseven]

Wow -- a whole year later and people are STILL pissed about the switch to the 3-4. It's as if losing the 4-3 was like being dumped by a supermodel. And trust me, our 4-3 defense was no supermodel.

Time to get over it folks. By the start of this year, the 2010 season will a distant memory.

[Chico23231]

Personnel Personnel Personnel is the easy answer. If you couldnt see the first year was gonna be a struggle with the guys we had...wow. Then I knew we be average at best, but not that bad. DE and NT spots were a tremendous struggle all year long. NT and OLB play is most povital with the scheme.

Yes Orakpo and Fletcher were great, but hell you could line these guys up anywhere and they would be effective...outside that, our other LBs position play was either atrociously bad or wildely inconsistent, unless it was atrociously consistent which was the norm.

come'on everyone knew with the personnel and the growing pains of the first year we would be not great. patience please

[freddyg12]

I don't want to get into the AH debate again, so back on topic; GT mentioned a player supply issue w/so many teams using the 3-4. I think the 3-4 has come into vogue due to the no. of quality OLB/DE guys out there. Even though OLB in a 3-4 is a harder position to learn due to some coverage responsibilities, there are more good athletes that fit that body type. Even the 4-3 DEs are lighter these days. So I think finding pass rushers that fit the 3-4 as OLB is easier than finding good 4-3 DEs. We'll see if that's true w/Kerrigan.

On the flip side, good DTs & NTs are always in demand. GT makes the point that the skins d line was aging & would've been an issue even if we ran the 4-3. This draft took some steps to address the d-line.

Overall, I don't fault the transition to 3-4 too much due to the emphasis that was placed on aggressiveness & creating turnovers. They weren't as successful as we would've liked in that regard, but they seemed to realize they didn't have the personel to just shut teams down, they would have to make big plays.

[Ruhskins]

Moving away from the AH debate (which this thread really shouldn't turn into) I think the key to our defense this year will be the defensive line. I think we are on the verge of having a great OLB group in Orakpo and Kerrigan. Without a D-Line that can push and take up the opponents O-Line, their talents will be wasted.

Also, we need to have a second ILB to play along with Fletcher. Who will that be? I don't know, but I'd like to see a young player step into this role and take over Fletcher once he is done.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Moving away from the AH debate (which this thread really shouldn't turn into) I think the key to our defense this year will be the defensive line. I think we are on the verge of having a great OLB group in Orakpo and Kerrigan. Without a D-Line that can push and take up the opponents O-Line, their talents will be wasted.

Also, we need to have a second ILB to play along with Fletcher. Who will that be? I don't know, but I'd like to see a young player step into this role and take over Fletcher once he is done.

Re: (AH)I try to get out but they keep pulling me back in.

I think Jenkins fit well as a 2-gap DE and will be a huge improvement over Golston.
I also think Jenkins will be in the rotation at NT with Bryant, Nield and maybe a healthier Kemo.

I just wish that we had someone along the starting DL that had some quick upfield pass rush ability.
I think Holliday, Jarmon and Scott are our best pass rushing 1-gap style penetrating DL.

I think Kerrigan will be an upgrade at the OLB spot.
I don't want to speculate on his upside but I expect at the very least competent level of play and enough pass rush to at least take advantage of some decent match-ups when the OL slide protects towards Rak.
The question and challenge for both he and Rak is to improve in pass coverage.

I'm content to give Riley and Henson their shot at the ILB spot next to Fletch next this year.
Both have a physicality and violence to their games that I think Rocky lacked and I assume they can cover better then Rocky b/c struggled badly there too.

I'm looking forward to watching how our defense evolves.

[NLC1054]

I really like Robert Henson. I know he's undersized or whatever...but so is Fletcher. And I've never seen one guy go so hard in the fourth game of the preseason. The guy wants wants to play so hard. "I want winners! I want people who wanna win!"

Here's an interview I did with him for Bleacher Report back around draft time.

I also want to see Perry Riley step up. I think between those two guys we might be solid at inside linebacker if they're really ready to play.

Here's the article.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

I really like Robert Henson. I know he's undersized or whatever...but so is Fletcher. And I've never seen one guy go so hard in the fourth game of the preseason. The guy wants wants to play so hard. "I want winners! I want people who wanna win!"

Here's an interview I did with him for Bleacher Report back around draft time.

I also want to see Perry Riley step up. I think between those two guys we might be solid at inside linebacker if they're really ready to play.

Here's the article.

You're KC Clyburn? No kidding. I don't care for much of what's on Bleacher Report, but I think your work is pretty good.

Makes sense, as you've had good posts here too

[freddyg12]

Don't forget Lo Alexander at ILB, he may be more cut out for that position & he's got great size for it. If Rogers or his replacement (Barnes mabye?) keep the same level at cb, I can see our d being much improved. That cb position is the only one I'm worried about.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Don't forget Lo Alexander at ILB, he may be more cut out for that position & he's got great size for it. If Rogers or his replacement (Barnes mabye?) keep the same level at cb, I can see our d being much improved. That cb position is the only one I'm worried about.

I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.

Those rules don't apply for OG/DE/DT/OLB Lorenzo Alexander

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.

I guess your argument could be considered true in the sense that last year he played OLB for the first time & started, yet our 1st round pick this year is a guy that will likely take that spot. But LA has obviously stuck around cause he has adjusted to new positions.

[NLC1054]

Stupid to overpay? Yes. Stupid to pay period? Not so much.

The thing is...you can't fix every hole you want to in the draft. Even with several good draft classes, you have to think, how many of those guys will be come legitimate starters?

When you really look at it, (thinking very loosely) you're looking for your starters in rounds 1-3, and maybe 4. The rest of the draft is mainly to add depth. That, and every position isn't going to be well represented in the draft.

This year's draft was weak on DBs, safeties especially. It was obvious that last year that free safety was a hole, as well as the depth at strong safety. Kareem Moore wasn't going to be an answer. Barnes played well enough for a corner playing safety, but they really want him to play corner more than anything.

So when O.J Atogwe becomes a free agent, and you're staring down a very weak class of safeties, and you don't have any proven guys who can play the position, then it makes sense to add a free agent. And they not only added a free agent, but they paid him in a deal that was very fair to both sides and was the right amount of money for O.J's skill level and his age.

The problem in the past wasn't that we added free agents; it was that we added free agents at positions we didn't need to add free agents at, and then them made them deals that they couldn't refuse, because Vinny was a ****ing dumbass and would set the market price for a guy too high, and no team was willing to come close to the kind of money we were offering.

Whereas with Bruce and Mike, we invited O.J in, talked with him extensively, offered him a fair deal...and then let him walk out to test the rest of the market place. The Vikings pursued him hardcore, but since he wasn't 1.) pressured into taking a deal from us and 2.) allowed to see what other teams would offer for his services, he decided to come here.

I think a team like Atlanta has done a good job of drafting talented players while also spending wisely in free agency. There can be balance doing both. It's easier when you're already a contender, but when you've got as many holes as the Redskins have, and as little depth, then you need free agency to fill the holes.

[MTK]

Position changes seem to be the norm for Zo, and he excels at whatever he does.