How far can Beck take us?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Your response is lame cause I'm not questioning his X and O knowledge! I think Kyle knows his stuff about offense. He is where is cause of his dad. But that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. I'm questioning his talent evaluation of John Beck. I saw the guy play when he was a rookie and I didn't see anything that made me believe that he was going to be good. He throws a bad ball, doesn't spin it and couldn't play in bad weather.

lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning his credentials.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning his credentials.

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.

Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.

What reasons? Doug Dutch? Lol.

[Lotus]

I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.

Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.

Originally Posted by Lotus

I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.

How lucky are we that the already rattled confidence of Redskin Nations QB situation will have it's first test against the Steelers. Obviously the first game is to early to make an honest evaluation but prepare for the 911 switch boards to light up on Friday Night in the DC Metro area.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.

Both understandable, but regardless of the reasons, the fact that he was given away for next to nothing not once but twice doesn't really lend to the idea of him having much value for multiple teams, especially as a potential starter. If he wasn't viewed as anything more than a clipboard holder, he wouldnt have been passed off so easily.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.

Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.

Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

Bledsoe took an AVG Pats team to the SB and Simms has won a SB.. I think they were both really good NTM Romo is a solid player also

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Bledsoe took an AVG Pats team to the SB and Simms has won a SB.. I think they were both really good NTM Romo is a solid player also

Dilfer also won a Super Bowl. Yup, had nothing to do with the defenses carrying those offenses eh? Nah, the Giants didn't have one of only NFL defensive players ever to win the MVP award(1 other one).

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

I'll might be willing to give you Bledsoe, but Phil Simms no. Dude's average QB rating is BELOW 80.

Also, looking at Bledsoe even further. His completion % sucked balls and has a career QB rating of 77. Sure he may have thrown many seasons with 20+ TDs, but he also had a ton of INTs to go along. That and he was a statue that took sacks instead of being able to avoid them.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I'll might be willing to give you Bledsoe, but Phil Simms no. Dude's average QB rating is BELOW 80.

Also, looking at Bledsoe even further. His completion % sucked balls and has a career QB rating of 77. Sure he may have thrown many seasons with 20+ TDs, but he also had a ton of INTs to go along. That and he was a statue that took sacks instead of being able to avoid them.

You simply can not compare numbers of today to the mid 90's or 80's. You just can't because it's become a pass happy league where teams run a lot more 4-5 wr sets. The illegal contact rule has become a major issue. It's just harder to defend the pass today than it was 10 years ago.

You obviously never saw Phil Simms play cause you're judging him on a silly rating. If you put him in todays offenses his numbers would be MUCH better cause he was such an accurate mid range passer. He also played for a run first coach who wanted the TE to be the focal point of the offense. Yes Bledsoe was a statue, he played for some bad teams, but how many QB's threw for more yardage than him? Probably a handful? You don't do that unless you've got serious skills. So again, neither was a geat Qb, but they certainly were very good to good, and I'd bet the guys that played with and against them would agree with me and not you.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.

I see what you're saying, and in some respects I agree with you. At the same time, let's also keep in mind that not every Super Bowl MVP QB that has ever played the game started off that way in their rookie seasons or even the seasons after that.

Let's also keep in mind that Parcells wasn't exactly an offensive mind during his coaching years in the NFL. Yes, I give him respect because of his Super Bowl wins with the Giants, but I'm not so sure he'd be someone who you'd take his evaluations over someone like Kyle who works solely with the offense and is doing it presently in today's NFL. Sure, maybe Parcells didn't want Beck in Miami, but it's not like he picked an all-star QB to replace him either. As far as Ozzie Newsome is concerned, he probably is more of an offensive mind and could evaluate talent better, but again, his knowledge lays mostly with receiving.

Just give it time and see what happens. Just enjoy the fact that we're getting to see football and this team is going through a change for the better.