London Riots

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

You edited FDs post to make it seem like the riots are the British govts fault, and you lump rich people in with them.
Its not the govt.
Its a moral breakdown in jolly old England. A lot of assholes acting like assholes. They should have their ass kicked to the fullest extent of the law.
Yes, there are plenty of welfare takers in on the looting but its about the general breakdown of society over there.

Doctor's daughter admits looting - Telegraph

And I can find plenty more articles similiar to that.

The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

I've read a ton of stuff.... the gangster that the police killed is just an event to use as an excuse for these idiots to run amok.
If you have read so many facts you would have seen the idiots in question admit to it.

You're being an apologist again using that incident to justify this crap, like it or not, thats what you're implying.

And Brand is a hollywood idiot. You discredit your argumnent when you mention his name.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

Yes, government action was the catalyst - police shot a man brandishing a gun at them and it appears likely that they have lied as to whether or not he shot first. While the violence that sprung up afterwards may have initially been in response to outrage, however, it continued b/c of opportunistic outlaws taking advantage of a volatile situation.

All those interviews with looters who were "feeling disconnected" with their government are just people making an excuse for stealing from others and attempting to evade personal responsibilty for their violent actions ("It's not my fault, the devil/the government/big business/rich people made me do it"). The rich/wealthy weren't targeted, government offices weren't targeted. Nothing was targeted except wanton destruction and grabbing a "few extra trainers".

Making excuses for their lack of personal responsibility and attempting to excuse their imposition of violent chaos on an otherwise lawful society is an invitation to tyranny and a recipe for deeper evil. Hitler's thugs and blackshirts were just a bunch of poor, disenfranchised workers and war veterans who felt the need to beat people up b/c they couldn't make their voices heard through the failed liberal democratic system. It was bullshit then and its bullshit now.

The system may be flawed but spontaneous, chaotic violence for the sake of spontaneous, chaotic violence is wrong under any circumstances. Your comparisons to the French and American revolutions - if intended as an appropriate analogy in any way - are laughable and somewhat disturbing. Where is the Continental Congress or the National Assembly who speak for the looters? What are their specific claims? If they are disaffected, what prohibits them from taking an active part in enacting peaceful political change? Are they prohibited from speaking freely? Are they not allowed to peacefully assemble and organize? Are their civil liberties being systematically violated or denied them?

Let me save you the time. No. No. No. No. These looters are not prohibited from affecting change by anything other than their own complacency. They are unhappy with their current life and rather than working hard to peacefully change it through the existing political structures - which they are free to do (unlike the French 3rd estate and the American middle class and plantation elite who were unable to do so) - they take advantage of a poor response by law enforcement to steal and destroy private property. Don't go romanticizing these thugs - they didn't find a Bastille to storm. Instead, they stole from shopkeepers, middle class business men/women. They destroyed the ability of many people to earn a living.

This was not some politically organized statement, it was thuggery sparked by a violent catalyst - nothing more nothing less.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

Thats fine you come into my shop or my house and it will be the last time. It may happen but the dumb ass people will tear apart their own neighborhoods like they have done in the past.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

The U.S. Government (and the U.K.) has been doing bad things for decades, mainly through ineptitude. What would you say will be the catalyst for violent action?

I think poverty is a fine motivator, and we already have that.

As for Mr. Brand, he has as much credibility or less than I do. He's not lived in the real world for decades. Funny guy, not particularly credible though.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

The U.S. Government (and the U.K.) has been doing bad things for decades, mainly through ineptitude. What would you say will be the catalyst for violent action?

I think poverty is a fine motivator, and we already have that.

As for Mr. Brand, he has as much credibility or less than I do. He's not lived in the real world for decades. Funny guy, not particularly credible though.

We have spent trillions of dollars on poverty and nothing has ever changed and it is only worse. When a mom is on wellfair and she has three kids who are on wellfair and then they have kids who are on wellfair then have kids on wellfair etc.. etc... the problem will only get worse. Not all the poor are lazy and just looking for a hand out but i'd guess 80% are and thats the problem. Back in Clintons day we passed wellfair reform but that bill has been torn apart little by little until its back to what we have today. Take the extension of unemployment. I'd guess 60 to 70% of those people are just milking the system until their benifits run out and they have to work. I've seen it with the people and friends I know.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

I think poverty is a fine motivator, and we already have that.

And then there's this......

Mr Thomas' death is under criminal investigation by the FBI and the Orange County district attorney's office. Earlier this month Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said he'd seen no evidence to suggest Mr Thomas had been intentionally killed.

6 cops against one homeless man who was clearly undersized and undernourished?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

And then there's this......

Mr Thomas' death is under criminal investigation by the FBI and the Orange County district attorney's office. Earlier this month Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said he'd seen no evidence to suggest Mr Thomas had been intentionally killed.

6 cops against one homeless man who was clearly undersized and undernourished?

That's pretty bad looking for those cops. Not sure why cops would need to use any real force after they have the man on the ground.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

I think povertyis a fine motivator, and we already have that.

As for Mr. Brand, he has as much credibility or less than I do. He's not lived in the real world for decades. Funny guy, not particularly credible though.

We aren't to that level yet in terms of poverty. However, that gap between the rich and poor keep expanding. That time will come.

Why do you say Brand isn't credible? He's VERY credible since he's born in raised in those very areas, and was part of the rioting generation in his earlier years. Why is his voice null and void?

Who the hell are you to decide that he's credible or not? I think anybody from that area has a right (and valid) voice to what they feel is wrong with the area.