Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Ravens)

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. Emotional is slamming ones helmet on the sideline and/or letting an f bomb slip because of disappointment in oneself. That's just not what happened here.

It's about a player so sadly convinced that he IS the team that we get events like what happened last night far too often. Please don't respond to this if you're just going to brush off what happened as a non-issue. That's not objective.

I'm just curious to know how much of Hall's attitude may be fueled by the coaches. I'm not saying that the coaches cater to his bad habits, but I feel that for instance, Haslett has made an emphasis on getting more turnovers. And well, Hall has been the one that has been producing those turnover.

My point is, if he was such a BIG problem, wouldn't Shanahan or Haslett get on his face about it? I know Hall has a lot of flaws, and what makes him a playmaker (at times) also is his Achilles' heel. But if he was such an issue, wouldn't have Haslett or Shanahan stepped in and done something about him?

I won't easily dismiss what happened last night, but at the same time, our coaches would have been REALLY stupid to follow on his request in the heat of the moment.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I'm just curious to know how much of Hall's attitude may be fueled by the coaches. I'm not saying that the coaches cater to his bad habits, but I feel that for instance, Haslett has made an emphasis on getting more turnovers. And well, Hall has been the one that has been producing those turnover.

My point is, if he was such a BIG problem, wouldn't Shanahan or Haslett get on his face about it? I know Hall has a lot of flaws, and what makes him a playmaker (at times) also is his Achilles' heel. But if he was such an issue, wouldn't have Haslett or Shanahan stepped in and done something about him?

I won't easily dismiss what happened last night, but at the same time, our coaches would have been REALLY stupid to follow on his request in the heat of the moment.

Well, if you're a coach, what can you do? I feel like you can cut a player for a horrible lack of professionalism, but in general, if you expect production out of a player, they'll put up with a lack of professionalism. I feel bad for citing him again, but what did Haynesworth in is that there was never any expectation for him to produce by this coaching staff. So his lack of professionalism got him in the doghouse. Whereas McNabb got a lot longer (and I don't know if McNabb's problem was a lack of professionalism -- maybe it was).

Whether or not the coaches are correct to expect any on field production from Hall is a different debate entirely. I'm trying not to hijack SS' thread into a debate on the value of Hall's onfield ability. We've had that debate too many times already, and this is a Smack Down thread about things that went wrong/need improvement. So I feel a DeAngelo behavior/professionalism discussion belongs here, whereas an assessment of his abilities should happen elsewhere.

As long as the coaches expect on field production, I think they'll put up with him. That would have gone for Haynesworth and McNabb too. If they stop believing in his on field ability, then this professionalism issue becomes his defining characteristic.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. Emotional is slamming ones helmet on the sideline and/or letting an f bomb slip because of disappointment in oneself. That's just not what happened here.

Hate isn't the right word here. My criticism is 100% rational and should not be dismissed because of who the player is. Haynesworth elicits an emotional response from you, but he never, ever did something so self absorbed as to delay the game after blowing his assignment. He simply never disrespected the game like that.

I'd like to take back the Haynesworth-Hall comparison. They're very different people, very different players, and a very different kind of selfish. So forget I named dropped Haynesworth. This isn't about him.

It's about a player so sadly convinced that he IS the team that we get events like what happened last night far too often. Please don't respond to this if you're just going to brush off what happened as a non-issue. That's not objective.

It was a misguided attempt and I highly doubt that ever happens in the regular season. Idc about it too much because it's preseason. Better to do it now then when the games actually count. As far as the him thinking highly of himself thing, well yeah. He does put too much stock in the plays he makes versus the plays he gives up. It's unfortunate but we are going to have to live with it. It's not in our hands and if the coaching staff had a problem with it he'd have been cut or traded.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mooby

It was a misguided attempt and I highly doubt that ever happens in the regular season. Idc about it too much because it's preseason. Better to do it now then when the games actually count. As far as the him thinking highly of himself thing, well yeah. He does put too much stock in the plays he makes versus the plays he gives up. It's unfortunate but we are going to have to live with it. It's not in our hands and if the coaching staff had a problem with it he'd have been cut or traded.

I appreciate that Hall cares enough about his image to treat every pass in the preseason like it's the last of his career, that's one of the things I like about him. But I don't agree with you that when the games actually mean something, that DHall is going to suddenly become a good team player who doesn't do something dumb to hurt his team after things don't go his way on the field.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he's just treating this game as any other game. But that means he's obviously a risk to do something similar during the season. And even though his 15 yd penalty rate was down significantly in 2010 over the rest of his career, there's a long, long history here that says exactly that.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. Emotional is slamming ones helmet on the sideline and/or letting an f bomb slip because of disappointment in oneself. That's just not what happened here.

Hate isn't the right word here. My criticism is 100% rational and should not be dismissed because of who the player is. Haynesworth elicits an emotional response from you, but he never, ever did something so self absorbed as to delay the game after blowing his assignment. He simply never disrespected the game like that.

I'd like to take back the Haynesworth-Hall comparison. They're very different people, very different players, and a very different kind of selfish. So forget I named dropped Haynesworth. This isn't about him.

It's about a player so sadly convinced that he IS the team that we get events like what happened last night far too often. Please don't respond to this if you're just going to brush off what happened as a non-issue. That's not objective.

I agree to disagree. I don't feel that he disrespected the game. How do you know that he wasn't being instructed by Shannahan to not line up for the PAT? Secondly, Shanny is one of the more disciplined coaches in the NFL. Either he didn't have a problem with it or he has addressed it. Either way it is over and his actions were not detrimental to the team. Off sides, penalty declined, PAT Good. At least he didn't take a nap in the endzone using the football as a pillow.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Angry

I agree to disagree. I don't feel that he disrespected the game. How do you know that he wasn't being instructed by Shannahan to not line up for the PAT? Secondly, Shanny is one of the more disciplined coaches in the NFL. Either he didn't have a problem with it or he has addressed it. Either way it is over and his actions were not detrimental to the team. Off sides, penalty declined, PAT Good. At least he didn't take a nap in the endzone using the football as a pillow.

Because...that's insane.

Look it's easily to deflect whats happening. Maybe the professionalism issue that Shanahan hid so well in Denver from the MSM, and that Hall displayed throughout his career (which was more justifiable, IMO, when he was straight out of college) finally took it's rightful place here in Washington. And now whenever Shanahan wants to be a total douche, he can put a signal up in the sky for his lackey DeAngelo to go run on the field and delay the game, all in the name of competitive spirit.

That's possible. Or maybe Hall got beat, convinced himself that he actually recovered and prevented the completion of the catch, and then even though the visual evidence said: no, that didn't happen, he took it upon himself to delay the game until they could review something pretty cut and dry. Either could have happened, I suppose.

Except no, that did not come from the bench.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Because...that's insane.

Look it's easily to deflect whats happening. Maybe the professionalism issue that Shanahan hid so well in Denver from the MSM, and that Hall displayed throughout his career (which was more justifiable, IMO, when he was straight out of college) finally took it's rightful place here in Washington. And now whenever Shanahan wants to be a total douche, he can put a signal up in the sky for his lackey DeAngelo to go run on the field and delay the game, all in the name of competitive spirit.

That's possible. Or maybe Hall got beat, convinced himself that he actually recovered and prevented the completion of the catch, and then even though the visual evidence said: no, that didn't happen, he took it upon himself to delay the game until they could review something pretty cut and dry. Either could have happened, I suppose.

Except no, that did not come from the bench.

Yes because Pro football and all those involved are a model of sanity. C'mon, they are all nutz!

I don't honestly believe that Shannahan instructed it, but he didn't seem too pissed about it either. If the coach can shrug it off then it isn't a big deal. You seem to be taking what he did extra personal. Like he came over to your house polished off your beer and kicked his feet up on the table.

[Bucket]

Well he was closest to the ball and involved in the play so if he thinks it should of been challenged then he acted out. I didn't think it was a big deal, he's always talking about the team. Just because the man is confident in himself doesn't mean he's self-absorbed.

[Bucket]

I am going to respond to it as a non-issue. He's a player in an emotional game that made an emotional attempt to getting a play reviewed. I didn't see an issue in it, and I dont see how anyone really can. Even Shannahan gave him a pat on the head and ass while heading to the sideline because I don't think D Hall understood that Mike couldn't challenge the play untill after the forced the penalty.

Hall gives it his all on every play. He forces turnovers, and sticks his head in there on running plays. He's been one of the good things about this defense since he's come over. To apply that he's self absorbed because of this is kinda ridiculous. It's not like he layed on the field as Vick ran around dancing around his body, or said he wont play defense because he wanted to rush the passer.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I am going to respond to it as a non-issue. He's a player in an emotional game that made an emotional attempt to getting a play reviewed. I didn't see an issue in it, and I dont see how anyone really can. Even Shannahan gave him a pat on the head and ass while heading to the sideline because I don't think D Hall understood that Mike couldn't challenge the play untill after the forced the penalty.

Hall gives it his all on every play. He forces turnovers, and sticks his head in there on running plays. He's been one of the good things about this defense since he's come over. To apply that he's self absorbed because of this is kinda ridiculous. It's not like he layed on the field as Vick ran around dancing around his body, or said he wont play defense because he wanted to rush the passer.

Even if you have a point that he was acting purely rationally (which he wasn't, but I digress), I don't know exactly who died and made Hall the defensive quality control coach as well as a starting cornerback. To get a five yard penalty on the kickoff because he didn't understand the play wouldn't be challenged isn't a great sign of rational thinking.

If he was emotional, he was emotional because he got beat. And he then he did something really dumb because he didn't just leave his failure on the field.

Sorry, the defense of his actions needs to be left on the field. I haven't had a problem with anyone saying that Hall's positioning on the play was fine (it wasn't) and Flacco made a great throw (he did). There are tons of not-so-great CBs in this league. Hall would be wise to just stop trying to be so exceptional all the time and just do his job to the best of his ability. As a Redskin, that usually is enough to keep your job.

[Bucket]

I think Gtripp has more of a personal issue and hatred against Hall, and it's starting to lash out.

Hall plays great, and he's a great playmaker in the NFL. How many other Redskins have taken INT's back to the house since Sean Taylor? I'm thankful he is here, and he has his good and bad moments, but in the NFL today. There isn't one DB that doesn't have a breakdown in coverage or something a few times a year.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I think Gtripp has more of a personal issue and hatred against Hall, and it's starting to lash out.

Hall plays great, and he's a great playmaker in the NFL. How many other Redskins have taken INT's back to the house since Sean Taylor? I'm thankful he is here, and he has his good and bad moments, but in the NFL today. There isn't one DB that doesn't have a breakdown in coverage or something a few times a year.

Hall's a good player, but as I said before...his ability to be a playmaker is also his biggest weakness. I think people get frustrated by the breakdown in coverage. Similar situation with Rogers, he was a very good cover receiver, but was not able to catch a cold. I guess we all want these guys to be Nnamdi or Revis, but they aren't. So you'll hear complains here and there.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I think Gtripp has more of a personal issue and hatred against Hall, and it's starting to lash out.

Hall plays great, and he's a great playmaker in the NFL. How many other Redskins have taken INT's back to the house since Sean Taylor? I'm thankful he is here, and he has his good and bad moments, but in the NFL today. There isn't one DB that doesn't have a breakdown in coverage or something a few times a year.

I can't speak to Gtripp's personal issue or possible hatred against Hall.....however he is right that Hall does put himself before team in his on field play.

I'm not even referring to the incident after the TD. You are 100% correct, Hall is a great playmaker.....however he also gives up a great deal of plays too and is a poor tackler. Nothing has changed with Hall over the years, he is who he is. Unfortunately we're a bit thin at CB and Hall is our # 1.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I can't speak to Gtripp's personal issue or possible hatred against Hall.....however he is right that Hall does put himself before team in his on field play.

I'm not even referring to the incident after the TD. You are 100% correct, Hall is a great playmaker.....however he also gives up a great deal of plays too and is a poor tackler. Nothing has changed with Hall over the years, he is who he is. Unfortunately we're a bit thin at CB and Hall is our # 1.

I agree 100%. Nice post Sammy.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I can't speak to Gtripp's personal issue or possible hatred against Hall.....however he is right that Hall does put himself before team in his on field play.

I'm not even referring to the incident after the TD. You are 100% correct, Hall is a great playmaker.....however he also gives up a great deal of plays too and is a poor tackler. Nothing has changed with Hall over the years, he is who he is. Unfortunately we're a bit thin at CB and Hall is our # 1.

I think this is correct, but we're not talking about a situation like TO or Randy Moss at their worst. Honestly, I wish his attitude would change, but you have to trust Mike Shanahan's ability to keep the team disciplined. My thinking is if Shanahan doesn't think it is an issue, then it isn't an issue.