Understanding Hard-Hitting Rules

[MTK]

Do RBs hit defenseless players that often? I think that's what this boils down to, and why it doesn't apply to RBs.

[skinsfan69]

Personally I'm so sick of all these stupid ass 15 yard personal fouls. It's just gotten way out of hand. I understand leading with your helmet. Fine. But what the league can't understand is the difference between intent and an accident. The Robinson hit was borderline. He lowered his head so I can stomach that one. But there was a shitty call against a defensive player on a QB where he was losing his balance and tackled the QB low. 15 yards. So stupid. What's the defender suppose to do? Stop his fall and try and avoid the QB's knee? It's ridiculous cause there was no intent there.

[NC_Skins]

Inconsistent league is inconsistent.

[Bubba305-ST21-]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Inconsistent league is inconsistent.

I agree completely. helmet to helmet happens every single play. I would say on almost every single tackle there is helmet to helmet contact. I do however agree that when a player blatently leads with his head like a bullet and spears a player in the head, that should be a penalty and fine. However if you watch on almost all tackles helmet to helmet occurs. I feel like penalties and fines are given especialy when a guy gets hurt or a big hit occurs even if it wasnt a spearing hit! When a player hits with his shoulder, most likely the players are going to hit heads also. Some of the penalties and fines are being given for hits that are undeserving and just big hits. These penalties change games.

And what is this about a defenseless receiver? i do not understand. If a defensive back or linebacker gets to where he is suppose to be right when the ball does, he cant hit him? Give me a break, does the league just want defenders to allow receivers to catch balls? When a ballcarrier has the ball they get low to brace for contact, and so does a defender to make a tackle. Helmet to helmet will naturally happen! Is the defender just suppose to take it in the chest and get ran over?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bubba305-ST21-

I agree completely. helmet to helmet happens every single play. I would say on almost every single tackle there is helmet to helmet contact. I do however agree that when a player blatently leads with his head like a bullet and spears a player in the head, that should be a penalty and fine. However if you watch on almost all tackles helmet to helmet occurs. I feel like penalties and fines are given especialy when a guy gets hurt or a big hit occurs even if it wasnt a spearing hit! When a player hits with his shoulder, most likely the players are going to hit heads also. Some of the penalties and fines are being given for hits that are undeserving and just big hits. These penalties change games.

And what is this about a defenseless receiver? i do not understand. If a defensive back or linebacker gets to where he is suppose to be right when the ball does, he cant hit him? Give me a break, does the league just want defenders to allow receivers to catch balls? When a ballcarrier has the ball they get low to brace for contact, and so does a defender to make a tackle. Helmet to helmet will naturally happen! Is the defender just suppose to take it in the chest and get ran over?

I believe helmet to helmet is for a denfensless player only. A Linebacker can hit a WR in the process of making a catch they just cannot lead with their head because they are a defenseless player. After they have made the catch and become a runner they are no longer a denfenseless player. Its really not that hard.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I believe helmet to helmet is for a denfensless player only. A Linebacker can hit a WR in the process of making a catch they just cannot lead with their head because they are a defenseless player. After they have made the catch and become a runner they are no longer a denfenseless player. Its really not that hard.

Im pretty certain the helmet to helmet rule is for any tackle.

Also im pretty sure that a WR can only be touched during a catch or immediately after a catch as long as they are not considered defenseless. So a WR being trailed closely from behind by a CB or LB can get hit as soon as he catches the ball. However a WR running in the direction of a CB or LB cannot be touched until they are running AND they are also in a position to defend themselves.

Maclin caught the ball and was running and even made a attempt to avoid contact, however; since his catch was made in front of Robinson he was ultimately in a defenseless position. Robinson techniqely couldn’t do anything, but would of likely gotten away with a arm or whiff type tackle if he tried.

If i was a offensive coordinator i would be designing plays that would put a WR in a defenseless position after a catch when certain zones coverages are used. Youd be foolish not to. Theoretically the WR shouldn’t get touched and if he does its 15 yards from the spot of the foul even if he drops the catch. Its troubling in my opinion that offensive coordinators have that opportunity.

So I put pretty certain and pretty sure above in italics because ive searched hard and cant find the definition of these rules anywhere. Anyone have them or know where to get them? This a HUGE part of the problem......

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Im pretty certain the helmet to helmet rule is for any tackle.


So I put pretty certain and pretty sure above in italics because ive searched hard and cant find the definition of these rules anywhere. Anyone have them or know where to get them? This a HUGE part of the problem......

im pretty certain helmet to helmet is fine if it is on an established runner.

i looked at nfl.com, the rule books, digest and surprising found nothing explaining it or laying out the exact language of the rule. . . im sure it is some where . .probably an espn artilce detailing the news rules and emphasis.

[mlmpetert]

Derrick Morgan fined $7,500, tells NFL: I can’t stop in mid-air | ProFootballTalk

I cant find the video. Did anyone see it? Was it dirty or fine worthy?

[Jontrem]

"leading with your helmet" was called spearing when I played and was a 15 yard penalty. I am pretty sure it is a 15 yarder in the NFL

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Jontrem

"leading with your helmet" was called spearing when I played and was a 15 yard penalty. I am pretty sure it is a 15 yarder in the NFL

What if you led with your shoulder but your head got there first? On most people the head comes before the shoulder. Only Merton Hanks with his gigantically long neck could move his head far enough away from his shoulder to ever really not hit with part of his head first. I am pretty sure spearing meant you specifically used the top of your head as the lead point of force. That is not at all what Robinson did.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

What if you led with your shoulder but your head got there first? On most people the head comes before the shoulder. Only Merton Hanks with his gigantically long neck could move his head far enough away from his shoulder to ever really not hit with part of his head first. I am pretty sure spearing meant you specifically used the top of your head as the lead point of force. That is not at all what Robinson did.

Incidental contact is inevitable at times, I agree. And yeah sometimes it's going to be unfairly flaggged, but when the league reviews it at least they aren't fining it. But poor technique is poor technique, and that's what lowering your head is.

[Jontrem]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

What if you led with your shoulder but your head got there first? On most people the head comes before the shoulder. Only Merton Hanks with his gigantically long neck could move his head far enough away from his shoulder to ever really not hit with part of his head first. I am pretty sure spearing meant you specifically used the top of your head as the lead point of force. That is not at all what Robinson did.

I was always taught to keep my head up and that way if my helmet did hit firs then it would generally hit with the facemask not the crown of my helmet. Also on the freakishly long necks point what about Steve Largent? He had the neck of a giraffe!

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Jontrem

"leading with your helmet" was called spearing when I played and was a 15 yard penalty. I am pretty sure it is a 15 yarder in the NFL

From the link you provided:

A tackler using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.

I dont think Robinson was guilty of any of the above. And like i said above thats probably why his fine cited the defenseless receiver rule, not the helmet to helmet rule.

I havent had time to look up the official rules, but the summary page doesnt really help in debating the nuances of the rules; which is why i created this thread since the NFL seems to use nuances of rules when fining or cracking down on big time hits.

[Jontrem]

NFL Rules Digest: Summary of Penalties search spear or just look under the 15 yard area.

[skinsfan69]

Not sure anyone remembers this....In a pre season game a Jacksonville rookie hit Chad Johnson. Clean hit, Johnson even said so after the game. Not only was it a god awful call but the guy got fined and he hadn't even made the team yet. I think the guy ended up making the practice squad but he still has to pay this big fine and it was a large part of his salary. If this isn't ruining the integrity of the game then I don't know what is....the essence of what defensive football is all about....getting a big hit and trying to seperate the offensive player from the ball.