Understanding Hard-Hitting Rules

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I agree this particular rule is ruining the integrity of the game and not because i like big hits but because it’s a completely impractical and unavoidable rule. I think FPRLG said it best:



Under the definition of the rule (at least the part we have been able to see) Robinson should have waited for Maclin to establish himself as a runner AND be in a position to defend himself. So basically Robinson would have to had stoped and waited until Maclin was running away from him before he could make the tackle. Robinson cant do that because he would lose his job.

I think the only way to fix it would be to make zone illegal – so Robinson is never in that position to begin with. Or make it a penalty on the QB to lead the WR into a defenseless position - so Robinson would know to let up because Philly just got flagged.

If you make it a penalty for a QB to put a receiver in a defenseless position Matty said the QB may take additional hits or sacks. I don’t really buy that. QBs make a ton of reads and are paid more than other players to do so. Also many WR routes change based off a read on the defense (especially in a west coast offense), so if a receiver and QB detect zone they just change a route to avoid the penalty. This would eliminate the vast majority of defenseless receiver hits and serve to eliminate the cause not the symptom.

Something needs to be done so the offensive player has responsibility to avoid these situations. Even if only for safety reasons and not competitive reasons.

so basically your saying that fining guys for hits where they clearly lower their head is ruining the integrity of the game. and the solution would be to make plays across the middle non existant? to me it sounds like your solution would cause way more harm to the integrity of the game than a fine every so often.

do i like the new rules and do i like seeing flags thrown and 15 yards walked off because of a clean hit that got mis-called? no. at the same time do i like hearing about ex nfl players that are dying in their 50's and losing functions in theirs brain years after the retire? no.

the way i see it the nfl is trying to clean up the game and make it safier without ruining what made us all fall in love with the game. i feel that these first few years of the new rules will suck and be hard to deal with, and some games might be lost because of them. but in the long run hopefully players will live a healthy life after they finish playing and the nfl will be able to control the mayhem that happend on the field on a more consistant basis. this isn't the first time hitting rules have changed in the nfl, eventually players adapt to the rule.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

so basically your saying that fining guys for hits where they clearly lower their head is ruining the integrity of the game. and the solution would be to make plays across the middle non existant? to me it sounds like your solution would cause way more harm to the integrity of the game than a fine every so often.

do i like the new rules and do i like seeing flags thrown and 15 yards walked off because of a clean hit that got mis-called? no. at the same time do i like hearing about ex nfl players that are dying in their 50's and losing functions in theirs brain years after the retire? no.

the way i see it the nfl is trying to clean up the game and make it safier without ruining what made us all fall in love with the game. i feel that these first few years of the new rules will suck and be hard to deal with, and some games might be lost because of them. but in the long run hopefully players will live a healthy life after they finish playing and the nfl will be able to control the mayhem that happend on the field on a more consistant basis. this isn't the first time hitting rules have changed in the nfl, eventually players adapt to the rule.

No im not saying that at all and thats what a lot of people seeing this thread are missing. The rule Robinson was fined under:

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are…(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner.

He was fined over hitting a defenseless receiver. Robinson lowered his head and avoided a helmet to helmet hit. The slight helmet to facemask contact was incidental and not part of the fine or penalty. Robinson’s shoulder hit Maclin’s ball carrying arm and shoulder. That was the only contact. Maclin was sprinting across the field towards Robinson. Robinson position himself and stepped into the contact.

Im against helmet to helmet hits or lowering your helmet to hit someone with it. But that didn’t happen. I don’t like seeing players messed up later on in life either, although like boxing or mma there is a inherent risk in the sport that every player is aware of.

I dont know what the answer is but i think eliminating the cause not the symptom should be how its fixed.

[mlmdub130]

i thought he was fined for lowering his helmet right? not hitting a defensless receiver, i think thats where we are getting the most confusion. hard hits are very much still allowed on a receiver coming across the middle, you just can't do three key things 1. lower your head 2. leave your feet 3. make helmet to helmet contact. once players learn to adjust to a different style of tackling i really see this being a non issue, along the lines of the horse collar penalty. the thing that is going to suck is going to be these first few years where everyone has to adjust. and the biggest thing they need is to become way more consistant in the way the calls are made and the fines are issued. as well they also definitley need to adapt a pay grade to fine amount ratio so that guys don't lose whole game checks over a mistake.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

i thought he was fined for lowering his helmet right? not hitting a defensless receiver, i think thats where we are getting the most confusion. hard hits are very much still allowed on a receiver coming across the middle, you just can't do three key things 1. lower your head 2. leave your feet 3. make helmet to helmet contact. once players learn to adjust to a different style of tackling i really see this being a non issue, along the lines of the horse collar penalty. the thing that is going to suck is going to be these first few years where everyone has to adjust. and the biggest thing they need is to become way more consistant in the way the calls are made and the fines are issued. as well they also definitley need to adapt a pay grade to fine amount ratio so that guys don't lose whole game checks over a mistake.

There was never any mention of him lowering his head when he hit Maclin so I think youre wrong but honestly im not sure anymore. I started this thread because multiple articles cite this rule for why Robinson was fined:

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are…(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner.

Everyone remembers the defenseless receiver rule being voted in over the summer, but i dont think anyone knows what it truly is, just generalizations of what you cant and can do, based off of things they have heard.

I tried to find more info on this rule and theres nothing out there. I cant find anything official that says you cant lower your head, launch, or make helmet to helmet contact. Thats all just stuff we have heard on tv or read in a article. Im guessing the rule shown above came from Robinson's side or a legit news source like ESPN that has access to the real rules and definitions and used it to cite what Robinson got fined for.

A while back in the Is Goodell good for the NFL someone said that all these rules are made by the rules committee and then confirmed the NFLPA and that Goodell doesn’t even take part in the matter, but couldn’t offer anything to even suggest that being true. Seriously its ridiculous, none of us actually really know what the rules in question are or how they come about.

I thought if I started this thread some stuff would get cleared up and we could talk about if some of the protection rules are good or not, but I don’t think any of us are actually citing real stuff when forming their opinion about the Robinson hit and hard hits in general. Now im just more confused than ever……

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

There was never any mention of him lowering his head when he hit Maclin so I think youre wrong but honestly im not sure anymore. I started this thread because multiple articles cite this rule for why Robinson was fined:

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are…(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner.

Everyone remembers the defenseless receiver rule being voted in over the summer, but i dont think anyone knows what it truly is, just generalizations of what you cant and can do, based off of things they have heard.

I tried to find more info on this rule and theres nothing out there. I cant find anything official that says you cant lower your head, launch, or make helmet to helmet contact. Thats all just stuff we have heard on tv or read in a article. Im guessing the rule shown above came from Robinson's side or a legit news source like ESPN that has access to the real rules and definitions and used it to cite what Robinson got fined for.

A while back in the Is Goodell good for the NFL someone said that all these rules are made by the rules committee and then confirmed the NFLPA and that Goodell doesn’t even take part in the matter, but couldn’t offer anything to even suggest that being true. Seriously its ridiculous, none of us actually really know what the rules in question are or how they come about.

I thought if I started this thread some stuff would get cleared up and we could talk about if some of the protection rules are good or not, but I don’t think any of us are actually citing real stuff when forming their opinion about the Robinson hit and hard hits in general. Now im just more confused than ever……

Think about how the players must feel

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Think about how the players must feel

Hahaha, yeah seriously