Who Can Lead This Team?

[dgack]

Thanks for your concern for my sense of calm.

Hey, it's your season, you can be angry or zen, or anywhere in between. The only thing you can't do is change the decisions of the coaching staff. /shrug

If that were the case, and he were less erratic with the ball, ala Jason Campbell, we would probably be staring at a 3 in the win column.

Don't get me wrong; I was a HUGE JC17 supporter here (check my post history). I am pulling for him in Chokeland. But the knock on him was "he's a mediocre game manager and will never be able get you a win if you need to put the ball in his hands" and that's largely continued to be true in OAK. They aren't winning because of him, he's just there not to eff it up.

Rex is definitely who we thought he was, which is to say, Favre-lite, minus the dong pics. But the coaches obviously felt that they needed that big-play gunslinger mentality more than a dink-and-dunk game manager, which is what Campbell has become.

The fact that you infatically claim to know how Beck will play without the evidentiary material to back it up is pretty shortsighted.

I don't claim to know. I leave that up to Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

Do I know, unequivocally, that Beck can do that. No. But the point is I know Rex can't.

I'm not saying Beck can't either (though again, I think he's had ample time to prove that he is markedly better than Rex and failed, which is fairly damning in and of itself). I'm just saying I don't really think a QB controversy and rebooting the offense right now in the name of chasing wins, under the very Snyder-esque pretense that we're close to being a contender, is a very productive thing to do.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by dgack

Hey, it's your season, you can be angry or zen, or anywhere in between. The only thing you can't do is change the decisions of the coaching staff. /shrug

I do recogize the things which are in my power to control. I'm not deluded and the governing of existential emotion doesn't elude me. But this is a forum where I am afforded the opportunity to speak candidly on my personal position.

Originally Posted by dgack

Rex is definitely who we thought he was, which is to say, Favre-lite, minus the dong pics. But the coaches obviously felt that they needed that big-play gunslinger mentality more than a dink-and-dunk game manager, which is what Campbell has become.

I don't think I could disagree more vehemently with this statement as long as we're not purely speaking stats. The stats, in the int department, are somewhat similiar. But the similarities between Farve and Grossman stop there. I abhor this mentality of applying the "gun slinger" euphemism to any player who is careless with the rock. Rex doesn't throw darts he throws balloons, and he'll dress like a clown and perform a spasmodic magic routine at your childs birthday party for $7 an hour. And where are these mythological big-plays you speak of. All I've seen are underthrown long balls and floating out routes in that catagory. There have been a number of missed opportunities in that realm though.

Originally Posted by dgack

I don't claim to know. I leave that up to Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

I simply don't trust them enough to make the right player personel decisions based on what I've seen so far. Kyle seems like an arrogant coat tail climber who wants things his way, and he'll throw a temper tantrum to Daddy if he doesn't get them. It was clear from the genesis of his tenure here that he wanted Rex to be his QB. Because Rex is pandering, calling his offense brilliant, and him a genius, it fed his ego, and it also helped that Rex was malleable and did exactly what he was told without criticism.

Originally Posted by dgack

I'm not saying Beck can't either (though again, I think he's had ample time to prove that he is markedly better than Rex and failed, which is fairly damning in and of itself). I'm just saying I don't really think a QB controversy and rebooting the offense right now in the name of chasing wins, under the very Snyder-esque pretense that we're close to being a contender, is a very productive thing to do.

I don't know what you consider ample time. Is it being picked up from the Ravens just before the first preseason game in 2010. Or is it vying for a job as a starter in a lockout addled offseason. Or maybe missing the first preseason game this year due to injury.

I don't believe that there is a reboot to Kyle's offense. It is what it is. And there is no controversy if you make a definitive decision to change QBs without fluctuation. I don't believe we're close to being a contender which is the fundamental reason I would make a change to the guy who doesn't have real game film, or experience vs playing the guy who will forever remain a carbon copy of his former self.

[SmootSmack]

Grossman has made several big plays, not just this year but also at the end of last year. The fumble at the end of the game was terrible. But let's not pretend like he hasn't made any plays for us

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Grossman has made several big plays, not just this year but also at the end of last year. The fumble at the end of the game was terrible. But let's not pretend like he hasn't made any plays for us

You're right. He's made enough plays to garner himself a .500 record with this team. He's average, and gives away as many games as he wins. He is a good backup. I just want to see if there is untapped talent lingering in the wings.

I love this team, as does everyone here, but I can't stand idly by, being a blindly faithful zealot if I don't believe in the content.

[SirClintonPortis]

You sound like a Pukes fan, OP. Romo was simply pissed at FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKES ANY ****ING QB WOULD EXPLODE AT. Now, him blowing up at his incompetent receivers and center's mistakes is "how" Grossman should act.

"HOW" a message is delivered is not as important as "WHAT" is being sent.

And that jab at Beck is calumny at its finest. Oh, a Mormon white boy just HAS to be effeminate and a choir boy, huh?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

You sound like a Pukes fan, OP. Romo was simply pissed at FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKES ANY ****ING QB WOULD EXPLODE AT. Now, him blowing up at his incompetent receivers and center's mistakes is "how" Grossman should act.

"HOW" a message is delivered is not as important as "WHAT" is being sent.

And that jab at Beck is calumny at its finest. Oh, a Mormon white boy just HAS to be effeminate and a choir boy, huh?

What in the world are you talking about?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What in the world are you talking about?

Global Warming???

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

You sound like a Pukes fan, OP. Romo was simply pissed at FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKES ANY ****ING QB WOULD EXPLODE AT. Now, him blowing up at his incompetent receivers and center's mistakes is "how" Grossman should act.

"HOW" a message is delivered is not as important as "WHAT" is being sent.

And that jab at Beck is calumny at its finest. Oh, a Mormon white boy just HAS to be effeminate and a choir boy, huh?

WTF...please put down the cocaine Rick James.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

You sound like a Pukes fan, OP. Romo was simply pissed at FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKES ANY ****ING QB WOULD EXPLODE AT. Now, him blowing up at his incompetent receivers and center's mistakes is "how" Grossman should act.

"HOW" a message is delivered is not as important as "WHAT" is being sent.

And that jab at Beck is calumny at its finest. Oh, a Mormon white boy just HAS to be effeminate and a choir boy, huh?

I don't know WTH you're talking about SCP but I damn sure know how you feel.

[dgack]

I abhor this mentality of applying the "gun slinger" euphemism to any player who is careless with the rock

It's exactly that, though, the mentality. I'm not making a value judgement on how good a gunslinger he is, but he has no fear of chucking it up there, and seemingly never has.

Favre won lots of games with these kind of heroics and lost more than a few. Romo's the same way, but with a lower ceiling and floor. Ditto Rex.

I love this team, as does everyone here, but I can't stand idly by, being a blindly faithful zealot if I don't believe in the content.

Who's blindly faithful? I can't think of anyone here who thinks Rex is the answer at QB. Seriously, where is the Cult of Rex?

I just want to see if there is untapped talent lingering in the wings.

Again, I just tend to think that the front office, including our Super Bowl winning coach who seems to have turned our team around in terms of work ethic, discipline and personnel decision making knows better than I do.

I guess you see some things that they don't. It must be a burden to carry that knowledge every day, trying to get word to the coaching staff, but always being shut out.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by dgack

It's exactly that, though, the mentality. I'm not making a value judgement on how good a gunslinger he is, but he has no fear of chucking it up there, and seemingly never has.

Favre won lots of games with these kind of heroics and lost more than a few. Romo's the same way, but with a lower ceiling and floor. Ditto Rex.

If by gunslinger you mean he wishes he was a Cowboy, after seeing that performance last night I'd have half a mind to agree.

I've never heard of someone getting the "gunslinger" label with absolutely no athletic ability to make a play when the pocket breaks down. Farve, Vick, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Romo, all guys that can extend the play by throwing darts, and making plays in precarious situations. I'd be surprised if Rex has a completion rate of 10% outside the pocket on plays that aren't designed bootlegs. He's simply a remiss QB. Nothing more.

Originally Posted by dgack

Who's blindly faithful? I can't think of anyone here who thinks Rex is the answer at QB. Seriously, where is the Cult of Rex?

MattyK seems have a affinity for him.

Originally Posted by dgack

Again, I just tend to think that the front office, including our Super Bowl winning coach who seems to have turned our team around in terms of work ethic, discipline and personnel decision making knows better than I do.

So would you say you're blindly following the lead of these people even though we've seen clear indications of dysfunction, predictable playcalling, undisciplined out bursts, and questionable personnel decisions. We're not talking about the Belichick regime here. These people have made their fair share of mistakes in a short period of time. It only seem logical to critically question their choices.

Your last statement was riddled with sarcasm, condescension, and malevolence, and you can shuve it right back inside the hole from which it came.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

MattyK seems have a affinity for him.

I was on the Beck bandwagon all preseason

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I was on the Beck bandwagon all preseason

Yes, but now we know you secretly think that Rex is the 2nd coming of Johnny Unitas. The secret is out Matty.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

So would you say you're blindly following the lead of these people even though we've seen clear indications of dysfunction, predictable playcalling, undisciplined out bursts, and questionable personnel decisions.

No, I'd say I'm pleased with the foundation that I've seen being laid so far this year considering the absolute train wreck that this franchise has been since the end of the first Gibbs era, with a couple of weakly positive seasons in Gibbs 2.0 tossed in.

We're not talking about the Belichick regime here. These people have made their fair share of mistakes in a short period of time. It only seem logical to critically question their choices.

So you're ready to proclaim Grossman worthless after less than a full season at the helm, and ready to put Beck in when there's been no evidence to suggest he's any better than Grossman, but you've got enough data points to be convinced that the Allen/Shanahan coaching tenure is suspect and their judgement and abilities lacking?

Your last statement was riddled with sarcasm, condescension, and malevolence, and you can shuve it right back inside the hole from which it came.

/shrug. Every one of your posts in this thread has been so full of vitriol and bitterness that it colors any possible point you're trying to make. And it's not really condescending to point out that your position seems to be:

a) you know better than the front office and coaching staff, and
b) the job the coaching staff and/or front office are not up to your standards

I mean, I suppose those are valid viewpoints, but given the state of this team and the fairly obvious improvements that have been made so far I'm not sure you can really expect anyone to take you seriously for holding them.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

If by gunslinger you mean he wishes he was a Cowboy, after seeing that performance last night I'd have half a mind to agree.

I've never heard of someone getting the "gunslinger" label with absolutely no athletic ability to make a play when the pocket breaks down. Farve, Vick, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Romo, all guys that can extend the play by throwing darts, and making plays in precarious situations. I'd be surprised if Rex has a completion rate of 10% outside the pocket on plays that aren't designed bootlegs. He's simply a remiss QB. Nothing more.

Again, it's not like I'm the clever guy who just hung the "gunslinger" label on Grossman, as much as it might help your argument.

Sorry to be a logical inconvenience, but:

Rex Grossman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Playing style
Grossman’s gunslinger attitude is illustrated in his desire to throw long passes, similar to his youth idol, Brett Favre.[72][73] During the 2006 season, Grossman had an above average completion rate when throwing passes worth twenty or more yards, but struggled to complete shorter passes. According to columnist Paul Attner of Sporting News, this attitude contributed to Grossman's inconsistent play.[74][75] During Week 12 of the 2006 season, Grossman threw a game-ending interception while attempting a deep pass to Rashied Davis.[76] However, during the divisional game in the 2006 playoffs, he threw a 68-yard touchdown pass to Berrian on the opening play of the Bears’ second drive.[77]
Additionally, Grossman’s ability to elude pursuers and scramble has significantly decreased since his season ending leg injury in 2004.[78] Although he only played three games in 2004, Grossman amassed more rushing yards than he did in sixteen games in 2006.[79] However, he showed his potential to scramble during a game against the St. Louis Rams, after he converted a third and long with a twenty-two yard run. Though the run was the longest of Grossman’s career, it only gave him five net yards for the season at that point.[78]