Zone blocking

[GoSkins!]

I swear that sometimes it sounds like we have some undercover cowboy fans on this site. Daseal, your constant pessimisim is mind numbing. Please try to understand that Gibbs sees more and understands more about the Redskins and football than anyone on this site. He cant be treated like a first year coach because he is a three time superbowl winner. He won constantly over a decade. He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job. You act like instead of him having a ton of job experience, he is an Alzheimer's patient.

Did you ever watch his third superbowl win? If so, please comment on that passing attack.

[SmootSmack]

Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts? I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs. Without Gibbs would this site even be where it is today? Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it. And it can't carry over into this phase of his coaching career. And that's fine if Daseal feels that way, but I just don't see how you can ignore what Gibbs has accomplished. If not for Spurrier's success in the USFL and NCAA he wouldn't have sniffed the NFL sidelines. The past is prologue as they say (is that right?) If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now. What has he done for us lately?" Sounds kind of silly doesn't it?

As GoSkins put it so well "He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job." The whole key to that is "put in the hours" This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process. And we'll have a healthy Jansen, a new Center, new receivers, a QB with several games under Gibbs offensive philosophy, a new OC, among other things this season. And we've improved our special teams. Don't underestimate the value of field position. Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

Yeah the offense does need to be tweaked, and it does need some more variety. But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense. Why wouldn't you play the game relatively close to the vest offensively and put the game primarily in your defense's hands? It's one thing to open up the offense, but it's another thing to put your ego above the good of the team, and just let the ball fly all day with 5 receiver sets.

Like Redskins_P said, all he was trying to do was start a thread about changes in the offensive philosophy, and yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

[NY_Skinsfan]

great post TAFKAS....

I am just sick of hearing that he hasn't proven anything to daseal...
He's proven plenty to me and to many others on this board and that is all that matters.

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts? I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs. Without Gibbs would this site even be where it is today? Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it. And it can't carry over into this phase of his coaching career. And that's fine if Daseal feels that way, but I just don't see how you can ignore what Gibbs has accomplished. If not for Spurrier's success in the USFL and NCAA he wouldn't have sniffed the NFL sidelines. The past is prologue as they say (is that right?) If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now. What has he done for us lately?" Sounds kind of silly doesn't it?

As GoSkins put it so well "He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job." The whole key to that is "put in the hours" This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process. And we'll have a healthy Jansen, a new Center, new receivers, a QB with several games under Gibbs offensive philosophy, a new OC, among other things this season. And we've improved our special teams. Don't underestimate the value of field position. Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

Yeah the offense does need to be tweaked, and it does need some more variety. But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense. Why wouldn't you play the game relatively close to the vest offensively and put the game primarily in your defense's hands? It's one thing to open up the offense, but it's another thing to put your ego above the good of the team, and just let the ball fly all day with 5 receiver sets.

Like Redskins_P said, all he was trying to do was start a thread about changes in the offensive philosophy, and yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

You are most certainly not alone. Good post

[aprius]

I think I can understand where DaSeal is coming from.
After being disappointed by a HOF coach last year and a HOF-to-be(Marty) and a College HOF coach(Spurrier) and a Useless coach(Norv) for 13 years or so, it is hard to think optimistically when our offseason has not been good and we havent upgraded our O-line or DT's and DE's. We have new schemes on offense! Hooray! But we have the same 2nd and 3rd string personnel that messed up everything last year and we have to pray that they learned something and are not getting killed in practice by their own teammates. ST may sit out the year, moping, for all I know. I dont know his situation and he wont grow up, be honest and tell us. Heck, he wont even tell his own coach what is going on. So, tell me, what reason for great optimism is there. I see this as a five year plan in Gibbs' mind. He wil draft DT and DE next year and trade for O-line help next year too. Ramsey will suffer while the line in front of him comes together and the WR's get used to the system. Campbell will take over in '06 or '07 and lead us to the playoffs and look like a saint. Ramsey will end up in Frisco or some other place needing a good back up. Write off this season though. 8-8, 7-9, 6-10 here we come!

[SmootSmack]

What upgrade did we need at DT? Griffin, Salavea and Noble did more than a good job. They did great in fact. And what do you mean we didn't improve the O-line? Rabach, healthy Jansen, another year of experience for Dockery, Wilson, and Molinaro. Really, I don't get why you keep ripping on the O-line. If anybody understands why, please let me know

It's May and already we have people writing off the season, amazing

[Daseal]

Starting from the bottom up: (this ended up being much longer than I expected)

Anyone can be a fan of a winner, but a true fan sticks with his man/team through the toughest times.

Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.

I still fail to see how our OL is hurting, and I really don't see Dockery as being a major question mark. I thought he definitely improved last year and should only continue to do so. Yes he's the weakest link on what should be a very solid line as far as the starters go, but he's certainly not a huge liability. Otherwise why did we not look to upgrade this offseason? Obviously the staff has some faith in him.

I don't understand either, Matty. With both of our tackles back healthy (Samuels was nagged by an injury all year) and Rabach along with another year of experience for Dockery I think our line (and more importantly) the continuity of it just got better!

All I was trying to do is point out to everyone that Gibbs isn't this old stubborn coach who isn't willing to change his ways.

Exactly why I think he'll become a winner eventually. He's smart enough to assemble a savvy staff and I think he can put his ego below winning, which is what's really important.

My point is, is that Gibbs has always adjusted. He's not afraid to make changes. So, let's not right him off yet.

Redskins_P: I've heard this argument a lot, but that's what scared me a lot last year. What locker room changes did we see during a game? How many changes did the system go through during the year. I was looking forward to awesome halftime adjustments to pull games out and was disappointed. Granted - the offseason is a much longer time and gives you more time to prepare and brief everyone.

In today's NFL, you can't write off ANYBODY in ANY season. That includes the friggin Arizona Cardinals.

That’s for sure, but hey, the Cardinals ARE above us in the almighty power rankings! Seriously though, there are sleeper teams nearly every year now. However, how many years have we been saying we're that team. 1/32 is a pretty big long shot.

But it's going too far to say the Redskins have no shot this year because it's just not true.

Schneed, bro, please tell me where I say we don't have a shot this year. I've never said that, nor do I plan to.

On one hand, he disagrees with both Gibbs' playcalling of last year and personnel moves of this year, basically saying the playcalling was the problem last year, and now this year the problem is the personnel. Despite these problems, Daseal still says Gibbs will be successful in 3 years. I don't get that.

Last year, I did disagree with the playcalling. I also didn't like the formations and how we ran very few plays out of each. I think the schemes need more work than the playcalling, and the playcalling more work than anything. This offseason we had some good moves. Rabach was a great start, but honestly, I wanted to see little action besides a C and maybe if a cheap/decent TE (like Freddie Jones) came available try to snag em. Most importantly I simply didn't want to lose people. We gave up too much to dump Coles, Smoot/Pierce hurt, Gardner is going to get cut. The only place I don't like our backup is really with the WR spot. Our offseason wasn't that bad, it wasn't splashy, which I'm glad for I just didn't like to see so many guys go.

Yes, I still say Gibbs will be successful (thanks for bringing that up) because most people on this board seem to forget that I add that into nearly every thread. I guess some people see me as trying to save a seat on the bandwagon, but Brud already has one for me -- so that's not necessary. Am I hard on Gibbs. Yep. Am I harder on him than he is on himself? Nope. He's a smart man, and he understands football, but even Jon Jansen said his offense was outdated. We'll see if it works this year, and I'm willing to bet if it doesn't he brings a top notch offensive coordinator in and let Gibbs do what he does best -- coach players, not call offense.

What upgrade did we need at DT? Griffin, Salavea and Noble did more than a good job. They did great in fact.

I agree, our D line has a job, and it's not so much getting sacks. That’s what the blitzing does. It's occupying the line and playing the run. Which we actually have a pretty damn good line for. There's a reason Williams (rumor) told Gibbs not to draft a DE on the first day.

Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts?

First off, I apologize for taking your childhood.

I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs.

So you mean you guys all jumped on the bandwagon in the 80s and because I think Gibbs system have problems but I'm still a die hard fan I'm not allowed on it? How ironic.

Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it.

I CAN respect what he did, I DO respect what he did, and if you read my posts over half of them say that. However, unlike a majority of the board, I don't feel like his success in the past should fully dictate how we view him now. He did great things in the 80’s, but I feel, and have always felt, that the NFL evolves very quickly and without a doubt it’s much different than Gibbs first go around. What he did in his first era was impressive, and that can never be taken from him. However, that doesn’t automatically make him a winner in this era.

If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now.

You always criticize me for bringing Spurrier into arguments, yet for some reason you bring him up much quicker than I do. First of all, Spurrier as a top flight college coach till the 2000’s. In 2005, if he’s not successful, he may have lost a little something. It wouldn’t surprise me at all, but college is much different from the NFL because of recruiting. The gamecocks aren’t exactly the recruiting power Florida was. That said, he gets 3 years in SC just like all of my coaches get.

[quote] This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process.[/quote}
Hey, wait. You mean this could take even three years. You mean the amount of time I feel is necessary for most coaches to get their system/players in place. While I remember this board feeling that overnight the Redskins became winners. What happened TAFKAS, where is your optimism. Your pessimism is really dragging me down.

Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

I’m assuming you’re referring to me but for some reason decided to omit my name. This just continues to prove that you extract everything bad I say and separate it from the good things I write about Gibbs. Have I written off this season? No. What’s wrong with saying that we’ve heard this before (which we have) and didn’t see any results. I’m as excited about the upcoming season as the next guy, and I don’t care if Satan is coaching the Redskins I’m still watching every game and cheering. I say give every coach three years, but have I ever even mentioned an “I told you so.” If this is referring to me, I dare you to find where I say in no certain terms I told you so. I have a feeling you’re going to struggle to find something. I have said multiple times that Gibbs can get it done. If this wasn’t directed towards me, I’m sorry. If it was – start reading my posts, please.

But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense.

Sure we had woes, but our offensive injuries didn’t begin to equate to the problems on our defense as far as injury concerns go. Our injured #1 WR still played well enough with turf toe to go downfield. If he was that big of a liability he should have been sitting next to Brunell week 3. Jansen hurt us without a doubt, but I think not giving Ramsey a real chance to throw only hurt his progression. Give him a chance to put some points up besides when we’re down by a few touchdowns. Our defense was great, but unfortunately, they have a much harder time scoring. I believe the only times we won games was when our defense or special teams scored.

yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

How did I essentially mock Redskins_P? We’re going to bring zone blocking in. Thank god! We brought it in last year and it worked. Yet we decided to abandon it. I haven’t mocked any member for having faith in Gibbs yet constantly get knocked for my views. Do I whine or complain about it? No. I know they aren’t the mainstream views, especially on a homer site. The mood is always upbeat and is viewed to a different tune than most of the NFL views us. What I like on this board is the difference of opinions and the debates come down to more than OMG U SUX, NO U SUX MORE type crap you so frequently see on forums. If you felt offended by me saying that it’s about time we start to use more zone blocking, I’m sorry Redskins_P, I didn’t understand that was an insult towards you.

but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

I understand. Thanks for cheering us all up!

Here are my views on Gibbs:
What he did in the 80s was amazing. Without a doubt he changed the game of football, which is apparent by his enterance into the NFL hall of fame. An honor reserved for few coaches. However, the NFL is a quickly evolving game and leaving for just a few years can leave you with a lot of new things to adjust to. Last year, he looked shocked on the sideline. He had trouble with the attacking defense, and I think that forced him to chain his offense down. He was so afraid of taking a sack/turnover that he’d rather get very little offensive production and try to stretch the game out. Unfortunately being that conservative is hard to muster today. It’s very hard to win a game without 3 TDs.

When you have a stellar defense you can also afford to take SOME chances. Especially when it’s 3rd and 4-5 in an opponents territory. Throw the ball. I saw many times when it didn’t even look like we were trying for a first down. What sours me is how this site refused to put any of the blame on Gibbs at all for the problems. All these years coaches have been eaten alive for less, and now, all of a sudden, it’s the players. I know you love the man, but why is it so hard to say, yes, he’s doing something wrong. It was part way through the offseason before people started to admit it was more playcalling than execution.

I think our offense has a long way to go, we need to spread the field more and we need to put zone blocking in more often. We need to establish a mid-range passing game to make other teams respect it, and I’m not suggesting a Spurrier-esque offense at all. I want to see Portis carry the team, but he simply won’t be able to till we establish the pass. Something we didn’t get going last year.

Will this year be better? I think so. I feel that Gibbs is willing to make the changes and has had time to recover from the initial shock. He’s a hardworker and I’m sure has analyzed some of the NFL’s best offenses to try to see what works and what doesn’t. I think our offense will improve, yet our defense will slip a bit. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we may head down towards the 5 spot (which isn’t bad at all) as bad as 10.

Does Gibbs deserve respect, absolutely. Does he deserve a free pass, no. I know you guys think I’m pessimistic, but what I say isn’t what half of the other NFL fans say about him. I think we are a little blinded by our faith at times. We always seem to think the Redskins will start winning. Does any other perennial loser have as much faith as we do? Every year it’s our year. Gibbs was a good hire, he’s a great “coach.” If I could pick anyone in the NFL to be simply a leader of men, it would be Gibbs. His motivation techniques and how he builds team camradarie and the whole team aspect is amazing. I have no problem with the man whatsoever. I just feel both his personel and offensive ideals need some tweaking.

I don’t claim to know more than him, nor would I want to. He was a genius in his day, and I hope everything you say comes true. I hope we use zone blocking, try the shotgun, start doing some slant routes (which speedy receivers like Coles can light up, Spurrier ran it all the time and it was one of my favorite plays). We need to establish a passing game and get Portis up to at least 4.x YPC.

I think it’s silly to insult my fandom. If I weren’t a fan why would I keep following every last bit of Redskins news, watch every game religiously, and constantly post on this site? For gods sake, I’m consumed with Redskins pride, though you don’t think so. I stand by my team through thick and thin, and I let anyone who will listen know what I think about it. If my way of looking at things is different from yours – who cares. We all have different views, I know I’m a pessimistic person. I always have been. I don’t like to sugar coat things, and I like to be blunt and to the point.

When it comes down to it I end up defending Gibbs 90% of the time when I’m not on this site. The other viewpoint is always needed and Gibbs does have his share of problems. What NFL coach doesn’t? This team has a long way to go to improve, and most of that pressure is on Gibbs. I just don’t feel as if he should get a free pass when every other coach gets absolutely hounded on this board. In closing, let my give an abridged version of what I think of Gibbs”
His offense needs work, Schemes especially, playcalling needs to be less predictable, May need a offensive coordinator is he doesn’t get the offense going this year or at least by next, will bring the skins to a winning season and probably the playoffs before leaving, Is the best motivator out there. I feel that his legacy from the 80’s and his current state should be viewed as separate. Not completely separate, but this isn’t just a continuation. It’s not like after a super bowl he had a losing season. He took over a decade off, and that takes adjustment. His offense has problems now, but he will win eventually.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.

As a point of clarification, I would just like to say that I was not questioning your being a Redskins fan in my response. I was noting that there are some die hard fans of Joe Gibbs on this site (like myself) who won't turn on him in his toughest time as a coach because we are true fans of HIM whether he is winning or not. And while I don't see how being a fan of Joe Gibbs AND the Skins at the same time has to be mutually exclusive, it is possible to be a fan of the skins without being a fan of Gibbs (ala, you, Daseal). My point is that if you're not a true fan of him now, then don't jump on the bandwagon when he starts winning.

In my opinion (which is worth essentially nothing), you criticize Joe Gibbs entirely too much to ever be considered a fan of his, but your post does help clear some of that negativity/hostility up. All I'm saying is get behind him now, or don't bother later because I don't like fair-weather fans. You are by no means a fair-weather fan of the Skins.......you won't hear me say that about you any more (I know I questioned it once a few months ago). But if you were to be the first to congratulate him and pat him on the back for a job well done after being so critical for so long, THAT, to me, would be hypocritical. Again, you shead some light on your criticism of Gibbs in your last post, so I'm satisfied that you don't hate or completely disrespect the man (which was the impression I had before).