'Occupy' types

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I don't think that I have refered to them as an organized whole that acts as a single unfied powerful or influential force. If so I'm sorry.

No, but you have implied that the vast majority are either vagrants looking for handouts or are just a bunch of jobless folks without a point.

Originally Posted by firstdown

That is the occupy group. Have you not looked at the 99% of the people involved with occupy. Its not like they could have a job and protest 24/7 for months at a time.

It's quotes like the above (and others, I just wasn't going to cut and paste them all) that stereotype "99%" of the protestors as, essentially, dummies, ne'er-do-wells or people who either don't want to work or are living off others.

Obviously, many people involved are out of work which is part of the reason they are protesting, many people are part of SmootSmack's "Hey I am cool cause I am protesting" group, many - and I would suggest much more than the 1% you imply - are dedicated people with high ideals who are making real sacrifices to be there. What is clear from the various news outlets is that there are a wide wide spectrum of people involved and to lump them all in one category - either favorably or unfavorably - is wrong.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

No, but you have implied that the vast majority are either vagrants looking for handouts or are just a bunch of jobless folks without a point.



It's quotes like the above (and others, I just wasn't going to cut and paste them all) that stereotype "99%" of the protestors as, essentially, dummies, ne'er-do-wells or people who either don't want to work or are living off others.

Obviously, many people involved are out of work which is part of the reason they are protesting, many people are part of SmootSmack's "Hey I am cool cause I am protesting" group, many - and I would suggest much more than the 1% you imply - are dedicated people with high ideals who are making real sacrifices to be there. What is clear from the various news outlets is that there are a wide wide spectrum of people involved and to lump them all in one category - either favorably or unfavorably - is wrong.

Thats not true they do have a point. The other stuff is just true.

[JoeRedskin]

^^ Thank you.

[mlmpetert]

Apparently Milk is starting to get pissed too:

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Apparently Milk is starting to get pissed too:

The capri sun is really bothering me here. unless it was a roommate who did it to piss off his other roommate. then its pretty funny. their fridge is pretty cool.

[Chico23231]

Biggest Public Firms Paid Little U.S. Tax, Study Says - Yahoo! Finance

Any opinion on these FACTS. I have to emphasize facts in this thread. Little to none seem to be found other than NCSkins is an aggressive a$$hole. Just playin NC

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Biggest Public Firms Paid Little U.S. Tax, Study Says - Yahoo! Finance

Any opinion on these FACTS. I have to emphasize facts in this thread. Little to none seem to be found other than NCSkins is an aggressive a$$hole. Just playin NC

The problem with articles like that they give numbers and not many facts. They say that 280 of the biggest Corporations paid lower taxes but how many Corps did they actually review and how many paid more. Also how many cut their tax rates by doing things like Boeing did by hiring 9000 American workers (that's why I'm for taxs breaks for corps that hire because its more effective then just trying to dump 700 billion into creating jobs).

"Boeing officials said they, too, had paid some federal taxes, but would not say how much. They said they had lowered their rate by taking advantage of tax breaks intended to encourage hiring. Chaz Bickers, a company spokesman, said Boeing hired 9,000 American workers this year"

I don't have a problem making corps pay their far share and I don't have a problem hitting corps who move their office over seas to avoid paying taxes. I personally don't even understand how corps are taxed. I know they pay payroll taxes, and other taxes on purchases and stuff but if the corp passes the profits over to the stock holders what is left to tax? I've tried to look it up but never found anything that explains how they are taxed. I do understand how S corps are taxed because I am an S corp.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The problem with articles like that they give numbers and not many facts. They say that 280 of the biggest Corporations paid lower taxes but how many Corps did they actually review and how many paid more. Also how many cut their tax rates by doing things like Boeing did by hiring 9000 American workers (that's why I'm for taxs breaks for corps that hire because its more effective then just trying to dump 700 billion into creating jobs).

"Boeing officials said they, too, had paid some federal taxes, but would not say how much. They said they had lowered their rate by taking advantage of tax breaks intended to encourage hiring. Chaz Bickers, a company spokesman, said Boeing hired 9,000 American workers this year"

I don't have a problem making corps pay their far share and I don't have a problem hitting corps who move their office over seas to avoid paying taxes. I personally don't even understand how corps are taxed. I know they pay payroll taxes, and other taxes on purchases and stuff but if the corp passes the profits over to the stock holders what is left to tax? I've tried to look it up but never found anything that explains how they are taxed. I do understand how S corps are taxed because I am an S corp.

Although I see where your confusion comes from about how many companies were studied - the opening line of the article lumps all 280 companies as failing to meet the 35% rate.

Here is the actual study and makes it clear that the study was of 280 companies - some of which paid the full 35% and some of which did not (I think the 18.5% was apparently an average of all the companies): http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodge...gersReport.pdf

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Biggest Public Firms Paid Little U.S. Tax, Study Says - Yahoo! Finance

Any opinion on these FACTS. I have to emphasize facts in this thread. Little to none seem to be found other than NCSkins is an aggressive a$$hole. Just playin NC

Good article. Several of the 280 corporations referenced appeared to have legitimate reasons for paying less taxes - deferred taxes to be paid in the future or significant business losses resulting in write-offs. At the same time, it is clear that the for ~ 25% of the corporations studied, the US's 35% corporate tax rate is just an illusion.

Obviously, through the elimination of inappropriate shelters/loopholes, the "real" corporate tax rate needs to be brought in line with that of other western nations. At the same time, the US rate of 35% is higher than any other comprable nation so part of any reform would require a lowering of the 35% rate across the board so that companies currently complying (again, about 25% per the article) would not be competitively penalized.

As with most things economic, the problem and/or solution can rarely be fully elicited in a blurb headline - hey, people need to get to the "grit of the story". [In so asserting, and as you, Chico, voiced no opinion on the matter, I am in no way asserting that you, Chico, are unable to do so - I do, however, w/hold judgment on NC_Skins' ability to do so - - ].

[SmootSmack]

Preview: Ganging Up on the One Percent (Season 15, Episode 12) - Video Clips - South Park Studios

[JoeRedskin]

Okay, so here is where I am on the whole "Corporations Bad" thing:

1. Corporation's legal "personhood" needs to be re-examined. The US Code needs to be modiifed to differentiate between the practical need for corporations to have the ability to act as a "person" in the business world and the fact that doing so should not neccessarily entitle these companies to certain Constitutional rights which were intended to attach to the person (assembly, speech, search & seizure restrictions). Further, in light of the SCOTUS' rulings on this issue, a carefully crafted Constitutional Amendment is needed that sets forth the rights of "artificial persons". Not sure exactly how this should look - but I'll get right on it and have something we, The Warpath, can submit to our various representatives. Is next Friday good for everyone?

2. The US corporate tax law needs serious revision. Corporations should be paying taxes in line with other countries that offer the same comparitive economic security as the US (i.e. there is a benefit to doing business in the stable political/economic climate of a Germany, US or Britain as opposed to Mexico, Columbia or Angola). Based on the study Chico referenced, it would appear that this would require closing certain loopholes and shelters while, at the same time, lowering the statutory rate to one comprable to other western nations. Any volunteers to draft a revised corporate tax code for us? Anyone? Anyone? How about a committee of SS33, Lotus and NC_Skins? Get back to us with your result by next Friday please.

3. Executive pay: Somehow this needs to be addressed. The fact that, for many corporations, executive compensation is divorced from the success or failure of a company (i.e. the "Moral Hazard" mlpertert referenced earlier in the thread - I think it was mlpertert). Not sure, this is a tricky one for a lot of reasons. I suggest a working group of Smootsmack, Chico, saden1 and mlpertert analyze the problems and come up with possible proposals and come back to the group with a working solution by next Friday.

Firstdown, your job is just to keep bitching about the vagrants and hippies in Zuccotti Park.

Thanks everyone for playing. Let's work the problem boys. I want the Occupy Warpath Movement up and running by Thanksgiving.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Okay, so here is where I am on the whole "Corporations Bad" thing:

1. Corporation's legal "personhood" needs to be re-examined. The US Code needs to be modiifed to differentiate between the practical need for corporations to have the ability to act as a "person" in the business world and the fact that doing so should not neccessarily entitle these companies to certain Constitutional rights which were intended to attach to the person (assembly, speech, search & seizure restrictions). Further, in light of the SCOTUS' rulings on this issue, a carefully crafted Constitutional Amendment is needed that sets forth the rights of "artificial persons". Not sure exactly how this should look - but I'll get right on it and have something we, The Warpath, can submit to our various representatives. Is next Friday good for everyone?

2. The US corporate tax law needs serious revision. Corporations should be paying taxes in line with other countries that offer the same comparitive economic security as the US (i.e. there is a benefit to doing business in the stable political/economic climate of a Germany, US or Britain as opposed to Mexico, Columbia or Angola). Based on the study Chico referenced, it would appear that this would require closing certain loopholes and shelters while, at the same time, lowering the statutory rate to one comprable to other western nations. Any volunteers to draft a revised corporate tax code for us? Anyone? Anyone? How about a committee of SS33, Lotus and NC_Skins? Get back to us with your result by next Friday please.

3. Executive pay: Somehow this needs to be addressed. The fact that, for many corporations, executive compensation is divorced from the success or failure of a company (i.e. the "Moral Hazard" mlpertert referenced earlier in the thread - I think it was mlpertert). Not sure, this is a tricky one for a lot of reasons. I suggest a working group of Smootsmack, Chico, saden1 and mlpertert analyze the problems and come up with possible proposals and come back to the group with a working solution by next Friday.

Firstdown, your job is just to keep bitching about the vagrants and hippies in Zuccotti Park.

Thanks everyone for playing. Let's work the problem boys. I want the Occupy Warpath Movement up and running by Thanksgiving.

As to problem #3-mlmpetert has rented a van with Chico will drive. saden will operate the megaphone and I've secured us space in front of Fantasyland in Disney World. Problem Solved!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

As to problem #3-mlmpetert has rented a van with Chico will drive. saden will operate the megaphone and I've secured us space in front of Fantasyland in Disney World. Problem Solved!

Excellent! See, this is what I am talking about folks - workable solutions to concrete issues!

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

2. The US corporate tax law needs serious revision. Corporations should be paying taxes in line with other countries that offer the same comparitive economic security as the US (i.e. there is a benefit to doing business in the stable political/economic climate of a Germany, US or Britain as opposed to Mexico, Columbia or Angola). Based on the study Chico referenced, it would appear that this would require closing certain loopholes and shelters while, at the same time, lowering the statutory rate to one comprable to other western nations. Any volunteers to draft a revised corporate tax code for us? Anyone? Anyone? How about a committee of SS33, Lotus and NC_Skins? Get back to us with your result by next Friday please.

1) Close any and all corporate tax hole loops.

2) Give tax breaks to companies that create jobs and maintain them.

3) Impose huge tax penalties for any American Corp with jobs overseas, who's products are shipped to the US. (make it high enough to where it's less costly to have the plant here)

4) Give tax breaks to companies for providing health care benefits.

5) Give tax breaks to companies that reinvest money back into the company. (employee raises(not CEO), additions/buildings added) -removed research and development. **** Pharmaceutical companies.


I'll come up with more later when I can research what the numbers are across the world.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

1) Close any and all corporate tax hole loops.

2) Give tax breaks to companies that create jobs and maintain them.

3) Impose huge tax penalties for any American Corp with jobs overseas, who's products are shipped to the US. (make it high enough to where it's less costly to have the plant here)

4) Give tax breaks to companies for providing health care benefits.

5) Give tax breaks to companies that reinvest money back into the company. (employee raises(not CEO), additions/buildings added, research and development)

I'll come up with more later when I can research what the numbers are across the world.

You say we should close corporate loop holes. Then you propose new ones.

I say close corporate tax loopholes, period.