Who do you want to start at QB?

[Bucket]

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

Agree 100% I dont understand all the talk about how you get the same results with Rex or Beck. I'm personally intrigued by the idea of seeing what Beck can do if given the start. They are not the same type of QB they cannot be categorized "the same" nor will they statistically produce the same results. I really hope Beck does get a chance and lights it up!

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

Trent Green, Tony Romo and others would argue for Beck

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

I agree.
Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.
Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree.
Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.
Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

You're going to have to explain the John Beck's unknown = Cam Newton's unknown a little bit further. It seems to break down once you move past "I'm enraged with that thing people thought."

There's a decade of age difference there.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're going to have to explain the John Beck's unknown = Cam Newton's unknown a little bit further. It seems to break down once you move past "I'm enraged with that thing people thought."

There's a decade of age difference there.

How many games has Beck started?
Haw many has Cam started?
I don't care how old a player is, if they have not played extensively like Grossman, we do not know how they will do until they get in there and play more.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

How many games has Beck started?
Haw many has Cam started?

In college, a bunch.

I don't really see the perspective you're selling me. You're trying to link Grossman-Beck with Clausen-Newton. But how many games has Clausen started? How about Grossman?

We don't really know anything about Clausen compared to Grossman. But we knew Cam Newton was the first overall pick and was going to get a shot. All we know about John Beck is that his teammates don't think he's that good and he lost a QB competition to Rex Grossman.

Maybe you're right that he deserves a shot to fail, but that's not exactly the same thing with Cam Newton. People doubted Cam Newton's ability to play in the NFL. But no one thought the Panthers should just play him to get it over with. But, yet, that's the argument for Beck.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I don't care how old a player is, if they have not played extensively like Grossman, we do not know how they will do until they get in there and play more.

If you don't care about age, how is John Beck different from Jimmy Clausen?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.

You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.

I never declared Cam Newton a success, nor was that the point of my post. He could still flake out or steal a lap top.
My point was not to put down Clausen to prop up Cam as some of you inferred. I am sorry if that is what you took from it.
My point was we do not know what we have in Beck or any other Qb (Newton, Clausen, etc.) that has never played or played very little in the NFL.
I was replying to those that implied Grossman = Beck, Beck = Grossman in ability. We still do not know what we have in Beck because he has yet to even start a regular season game for the Redskins. Much less has he started 5 or 10 games for us like Grossman has.
We will soon see if Shanahan will allow it.
I do not post on this sight much, especially on those threads that seek to demonize people and players. A bold opinion is one thing, but rushing to judgment on a player who has started 4 games in his career or has never played in the NFL and claiming to be something (great, bad, average) is premature. Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted and rated low. But they got their chance and made the best of it. I am NOT saying Beck will be the next Tom Brady. But lets see what we have.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

but he's 30. a 30 year old rookie is in no way impressive and probably won't light it up here after being passed on by other QB needy teams.

maybe he will, maybe he's rich gannon II, but i won't be putting money on it.