Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

[SmootSmack]

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

Yeah but we cut bait with a guy like Artis Hicks for who? 7th round rookies? I understand we want youth, but keeping 8 or 9 receivers at the expense of O-line depth when the guys we have are so bad/young is not smart. And we're seeing it fully exposed now. And those are Mike's decisions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah but we cut bait with a guy like Artis Hicks for who? 7th round rookies? I understand we want youth, but keeping 8 or 9 receivers at the expense of O-line depth when the guys we have are so bad/young is not smart. And we're seeing it fully exposed now. And those are Mike's decisions.

Problem is OL really offer nothing other than depth when they're not starting. Meaning you can't use OL for special teams like you can with skill players. And so, do you keep an Artis Hicks or do you keep a guy like Maurice Hurt who can hopefully be developed?

It's a fine line in my opinion. You have to be prepared for injuries but you can't really plan your team expecting so many guys to get hurt.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

phi normally keeps 10 and has 8 that can start without giving up 9 sacks.

we were short 3 backups coming into the season. cook and locklear are the only backups we really have, and they're fairly low tier #2s. Ideally brown would be our 6th OL and not starting, and chester wouldn't be starting either.

I was shocked we didn't sign anyone good in the offseason (if anyone cares to check). If we got a new RG/RT and pushed those two to backupp status, we'd still need another backup OG and an upgrade to cook.

You can get by with average WRs and a decent QB if the line is good. 9 sacks and 30 yards rushing or whatever it was is beyond pathetic though.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Unaccustomed as I am to being part of the optimism faction here, let me give this a try...

A large part of the distress that folks here are expressing in completely unambiguous terms comes from the fact that those same folks allowed themselves to harbor unrealistic expectations in the past. Let me give a few examples:

Jamaal Brown: When he signed on here, there was euphoria because the Skins got a Pro Bowl caliber tackle to play opposite the #4 pick in the draft at the other tackle and as soon as Brown worked out the kinks from an injury he would resume that level of play and even surpass it. Those two were going to make Redskin fans forget about Lachey and Jacoby as offensive tackles. Excuse me, Jamaal Brown had a good year on a very good team and received more accolades than his play on the field merited; then he got hurt; then the Redskins signed a hurt player with exaggerated press clippings. Today we have folks saying he sucks. Actually, he never returned to the level he had achieved prior to his injury; he does not suck; he is merely average to slightly below average for an OT.

LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]


THE QUARTERBACKS: When Mike Shanahan was hired fans went overboard on his "offensive genius" credentials. Make no mistake, Mike Shanahan has a good offensive mind, but a large component of his "genius reputation" comes from having Steve Young as his QB in SF and John Elway as his QB in Denver. He did not pick either one; he did not groom either one; he designed plays those guys could execute to beat the other team. He had no QB when he got here; he tried to get one and it did not work; he now has two guys who would need to improve to become journeymen. It isn't their fault they aren't stars; it isn't Mike Shanahan's either. Fans expected waaay too much from day one. By the way, the last true "Franchise QB" the Redskins had was Sonny Jurgensen. Sonny is in his 70s now; nevertheless, if he had six weeks to prepare and get his arm loose, he might be able to match either of the current dudes in one of those QB Skills Contests...


Kyle Shanahan: He got the OC job in Houston because Gary Kubiak had been Mike Shanahan's OC in Denver since forever and there Kyle had a better-than-average QB and a STUD WR to play with. Fans bought into the Kyle-hype; he had accomplished good things in Houston; he had the "Shanahan genes"; he would work magic. Right now, he is underachieving even considering the limited talent he has to work with here to the point that I am not sure he would be able to get another OC position in the NFL if Dad were to can his butt at the end of this season. BTW, that is one of the best arguments to demonstrate why nepotism is always a bad idea...

Ryan Torrain: He never was much of an all-around back. He had two good games and fans gave him a nickname and started predicting 1500-yard seasons for him in the Mike Shanahan running game. Just as offenses work better with Steve Young and John Elway at QB, running games do better with a competent OL. And that leads me to...


The OL: And this OL is not competent and don't blame the injuries. The OL has stunk here for about 5-7 years and it now has a bunch of young guys playing there who aren't very good instead of a bunch of old guys who aren't very good.


WRs: When was the last time the Skins had a WR that made other defensive coordinators think about building their game plan to contain him? Gary Clark? Charlie Taylor? Bobby Mitchell? But let one of these current guys go and make two tough catches in a single game and the fans are ready to nominate him for the Pro Bowl. Expectations are waaay out of line.


Yesterday the Redskins wet the bed. The best thing to say about that game was that it was not one of the nationally televised games so it was not seen in sixty or seventy NFL markets. The team performed badly on the field; the game plan was certainly not effective - - that could be due to bad play on the field or bad game planning. The team has lost 3 in a row and has been less than exciting in any of those 3 games.

If this team does not come out with plenty of emotion to start this week's game, then I will hang a lot of responsibility on the coaches for not finding the right buttons to push. Even playing with emotion, this team can lose next weekend; but there MUST be some fire and brimstone on the field for the first couple of series next week. THERE MUST BE!!!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]

I think Laron Landry can thank D. Hall for getting him off the hook on this one, because very few people criticize Landry for giving up big plays. On a serious note, I think our defensive backs continue to have communication issues, hence the example from yesterday when Fletcher went off on Landry for a blown coverage. I know at the beginning of the season, communication was an issue due to the lack of practice/playing time. But now Haslett needs to figure out how to make that unit work.