Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Just as far as unrestricted free agents go, Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill, Alex Smith, Tarvaris Jackson, Drew Stanton, Byron Leftwich and Matt Moore have all been unrestricted free agents since Shanahan had the job here. Caleb Hanie was an RFA who could have been plucked from the Bears for zero compensation. A competitive trade offer could have plucked Matt Flynn from Green Bay. Kevin Kolb was terribly overpriced and would have been a bad short-term acquisition, but he was available.

No one on the above list contains magical qualities that would have fixed the 2011 season (whether they could have kept it from being derailed is another issue), but they are all better than John Beck, and about half of them are better than Rex Grossman.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that it didn't matter in the long run, but the Redskins could and should have done better on offensive personnel than they have. Whether they could have done so much better as to build an annual winner is debatable, I think. What's not debatable is that they couldn't have built an annual winner while taking the strategic path they did.

Glad you said that about the list above. 1-2 wins better make everybody feel better about our team??? because thats the over all impact of that list and does ZERO with the future of QB on the team. Matt Flynn maybe has an impact of more than 1-2 years and his play as a future franchise QB? Not buying it for a second.

Shanny cant be criticize for passing on any of those guys. McNabb trade was a calulated risk which fail...at least he smart enough to realize and after a half season got him outta there. Much like he was smart enough to get rid of Albert.

He can be criticized for not taking a young, developmental QB, but if he's thinking the better prospects are coming out in 12, he's thinking why burn a pick for someone who will get killed for a year and then be immediately replaced? Well he is right, this draft is stacked with much better QB prospects. You still got to give him time, because if he picks his guy and then we are much improved on offense and QB play....I really think this is his and Bruce's plan.

[NC_Skins]

Newsflash to all you kids bitching about our two shitty QBs:


1) You can't force Free Agents to Washington so stop with the Vince Young(and others) talk.


2) Who's to say Hasslebeck, Bulger, Jackson or any other crappy QB you all manage to name would do any better than Rex or Beck?

3) Speaking of Hasslebeck, why would you sign a 36 year old QB to a 3 year contract worth about 8 mil per season with no rookie in the stable?


Like I've said before, you can't turn shit into sugar so stop acting like Shanny had all these great options at the QB spot. He didn't. Had he brought in any of those guys you all mentioned and they played shitty, you'd be bitching about that too.

Yes we have god awful talent at the QB spot right now, but lets see the pieces we have and are building on. We aren't going to be competitive until about 2013 to be honest. I'm going to chalk up 2012 as a learning curve for whatever rookie QB we bring in.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Newsflash to all you kids bitching about our two shitty QBs:


1) You can't force Free Agents to Washington so stop with the Vince Young(and others) talk.


2) Who's to say Hasslebeck, Bulger, Jackson or any other crappy QB you all manage to name would do any better than Rex or Beck?

3) Speaking of Hasslebeck, why would you sign a 36 year old QB to a 3 year contract worth about 8 mil per season with no rookie in the stable?


Like I've said before, you can't turn shit into sugar so stop acting like Shanny had all these great options at the QB spot. He didn't. Had he brought in any of those guys you all mentioned and they played shitty, you'd be bitching about that too.

Yes we have god awful talent at the QB spot right now, but lets see the pieces we have and are building on. We aren't going to be competitive until about 2013 to be honest. I'm going to chalk up 2012 as a learning curve for whatever rookie QB we bring in.

I totally agree! THANK YOU! Folks act like MS could pick who ever he wanted in the NFL and/or NCAA and he just choose Beck and Rex over everyone else.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by mredskins

I totally agree! THANK YOU! Folks act like MS could pick who ever he wanted in the NFL and/or NCAA and he just choose Beck and Rex over everyone else.

He could have drafted Gabbert or Dalton JS

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

He could have drafted Gabbert or Dalton JS

Or Ponder. Or Stanzi later on. etc. etc.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

He could have drafted Gabbert or Dalton JS

Gabbert has done nothing to save the Jags offense yet. Ok, he has no talent around him, but isn't a franchise QB supposed to make at least some noise with little talent(i.e Sam Bradford didn't produce much, but his poise was constantly mentioned).

Dalton - The dude is like Drew Brees. Top pick in the second round. How many people would have honestly, REALLY HONESTLY, taken him at #10 or #16 before they had the benefit of hindsight? And we have to consider how much AJ Green is helping him out as well. He might be just a little overrated.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Newsflash to all you kids bitching about our two shitty QBs:

1) You can't force Free Agents to Washington so stop with the Vince Young(and others) talk.

2) Who's to say Hasslebeck, Bulger, Jackson or any other crappy QB you all manage to name would do any better than Rex or Beck?

3) Speaking of Hasslebeck, why would you sign a 36 year old QB to a 3 year contract worth about 8 mil per season with no rookie in the stable?

Like I've said before, you can't turn shit into sugar so stop acting like Shanny had all these great options at the QB spot. He didn't. Had he brought in any of those guys you all mentioned and they played shitty, you'd be bitching about that too.

Yes we have god awful talent at the QB spot right now, but lets see the pieces we have and are building on. We aren't going to be competitive until about 2013 to be honest. I'm going to chalk up 2012 as a learning curve for whatever rookie QB we bring in.

Why would you trade a 2nd rounder for a washed up QB from your divisional opponent?

I think people feel that there were better options at QB period. And unless you know for a fact that ALL of these QBs didn't want to come to DC, we never know what was going on behind close doors.

We all know that these were going to be rebuilding years. But Shanahan has made some huge questionable decisions at QB. He could have made better decisions and I think fans expected better from someone that has such a big reputation as he does.

At the least I would have liked to see us get a QB that would be able to muster enough of an offense to allow our young players to develop.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Why would you trade a 2nd rounder for a washed up QB from your divisional opponent?

I think people feel that there were better options at QB period. And unless you know for a fact that ALL of these QBs didn't want to come to DC, we never know what was going on behind close doors.

We all know that these were going to be rebuilding years. But Shanahan has made some huge questionable decisions at QB. He could have made better decisions and I think fans expected better from someone that has such a big reputation as he does.

I was never in favor of the McNabb trade so you are preaching to the choir, and I've stated that this has been Shanny's biggest mistake.

I think Smoot's reporting back then stated that VY wanted to go to Philly and the reports were even out back then prior to the open of free agency that he was heading there.

Can you imagine a oft injured Hasslebeck behind this OL?...lol THIRTY SIX YEARS OLD with a 8mil/year salary. No thanks, but I'll take Rex/Beck. It would be one thing if this team only lacked a QB but that isn't so.

Also to say those QBs would fair any better with this talent on offense is a huge stretch. If Tavaris Jackson couldn't get it done in Minnesota with Rice/Harvin/Peterson, what on earth makes you think he can do it with our scrubs?...LOL

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I was never in favor of the McNabb trade so you are preaching to the choir, and I've stated that this has been Shanny's biggest mistake.

I think Smoot's reporting back then stated that VY wanted to go to Philly and the reports were even out back then prior to the open of free agency that he was heading there.

Can you imagine a oft injured Hasslebeck behind this OL?...lol THIRTY SIX YEARS OLD with a 8mil/year salary. No thanks, but I'll take Rex/Beck. It would be one thing if this team only lacked a QB but that isn't so.

Also to say those QBs would fair any better with this talent on offense is a huge stretch. If Tavaris Jackson couldn't get it done in Minnesota with Rice/Harvin/Peterson, what on earth makes you think he can do it with our scrubs?...LOL

I actually think our OL has not been that piss poor in blocking itself...except for Jamaal Brown and depth guys like Locklear and Hurt. Hasselbeck is probably slightly more mobile than Rex and makes better decisions. But I too mentioned to folks that his term and price would be a bit too much. Not only would we have to match his price and term, we'd probably have to pay half a million more or even more than that since Hasselbeck has been a buddy of Tennessee's OC since childhood.

I agree on TJax. He's a Rex with more mobility and stronger arm, basically.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Newsflash to all you kids bitching about our two shitty QBs:


1) You can't force Free Agents to Washington so stop with the Vince Young(and others) talk.


2) Who's to say Hasslebeck, Bulger, Jackson or any other crappy QB you all manage to name would do any better than Rex or Beck?

3) Speaking of Hasslebeck, why would you sign a 36 year old QB to a 3 year contract worth about 8 mil per season with no rookie in the stable?


Like I've said before, you can't turn shit into sugar so stop acting like Shanny had all these great options at the QB spot. He didn't. Had he brought in any of those guys you all mentioned and they played shitty, you'd be bitching about that too.

Yes we have god awful talent at the QB spot right now, but lets see the pieces we have and are building on. We aren't going to be competitive until about 2013 to be honest. I'm going to chalk up 2012 as a learning curve for whatever rookie QB we bring in.

You are missing the point by a lot.

The argument that the Redskins were handcuffed to Rex Grossman and John Beck this season must die. It must die right now. It's an irrational, apologetic argument. Look around. We certainly could have kept three QBs on the active roster.

One of the biggest failures of the 2010 season was that the Redskins didn't go into the year with a long-term development option at QB, and ended up wasting the last three games of the season. At least, once you acquired McNabb, those roster spots seem frivolous. But he's a guy that gets hurt all the time, it certainly would have seemed prudent to bring in a long term option with potential to play if when the season is lost. That's what rebuilding is.

But to enter 2011 with the same quarterback situation minus McNabb isn't rational. It was pure arrogance. You must understand: the downside to the failure of those two quarterbacks was enormous. It means a totally wasted season on offense. But the risk of failure seemed highly likely.

The argument that the Redskins were obligated to already have their long-term franchise QB by now is a strawman. No one is saying the Redskins are worse off long term because they don't have their quarterback right now. They are worse off because the last two seasons would appear to be a total waste of my time and of your time. And so rationally, a new direction would seem to be beneficial for the franchise.

I think your anger is misdirected here. The people that want to hold Shanahan accountable have not run the Redskins into the ground. Mike Shanahan has.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You are missing the point by a lot.

The argument that the Redskins were handcuffed to Rex Grossman and John Beck this season must die. It must die right now. It's an irrational, apologetic argument. Look around. We certainly could have kept three QBs on the active roster.

One of the biggest failures of the 2010 season was that the Redskins didn't go into the year with a long-term development option at QB, and ended up wasting the last three games of the season. At least, once you acquired McNabb, those roster spots seem frivolous. But he's a guy that gets hurt all the time, it certainly would have seemed prudent to bring in a long term option with potential to play if when the season is lost. That's what rebuilding is.

But to enter 2011 with the same quarterback situation minus McNabb isn't rational. It was pure arrogance. You must understand: the downside to the failure of those two quarterbacks was enormous. It means a totally wasted season on offense. But the risk of failure seemed highly likely.

The argument that the Redskins were obligated to already have their long-term franchise QB by now is a strawman. No one is saying the Redskins are worse off long term because they don't have their quarterback right now. They are worse off because the last two seasons would appear to be a total waste of my time and of your time. And so rationally, a new direction would seem to be beneficial for the franchise.

I think your anger is misdirected here. The people that want to hold Shanahan accountable have not run the Redskins into the ground. Mike Shanahan has.

I agree not getting young guy to come in to attempt to develop is a failure, how big of one with our options at our time is an unknown. With the talent we've seen since, not substantiable. Meanwhile, almost everyother facet of the team has been rebuilt...WR, RB, Oline, Dline, Linebacker, (attempts at) CB . This was more than a 2 year job.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I agree not getting young guy to come in to attempt to develop is a failure, how big of one with our options at our time is an unknown. With the talent we've seen since, not substantiable. Meanwhile, almost everyother facet of the team has been rebuilt...WR, RB, Oline, Dline, Linebacker, (attempts at) CB . This was more than a 2 year job.

However long the rebuilding process was going to take when we hired MS...that's how far we are from winning today under MS.

I make no guarantees that a younger, fresher mind can turn this around any quicker. But I think it would be a good idea to try.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think your anger is misdirected here. The people that want to hold Shanahan accountable have not run the Redskins into the ground. Mike Shanahan has.

Good article, this supports the points I have made about MS/KS and not modifying their system to the in-house talent.

John Fox: Tim Tebow would be ‘screwed’ in a normal offense - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

From the link:
It's beautiful. How many NFL coaches have lost their jobs through the years because they have a specific way of doing things, and they will not deviate from that way, no matter what the talent around them dictates? Fox has not only been flexible, he's taken it to an absolute extreme. It's such a massive change of pace from the traditional copycat nature of the NFL that it almost makes me want to root for Fox and Tebow.

The reality for John Fox, though, is that he doesn't have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He has what he has, and he's embracing it full force. That's a pretty good way to go about things.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Good article, this supports the points I have made about MS/KS and not modifying their system to the in-house talent.

John Fox: Tim Tebow would be ‘screwed’ in a normal offense - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

From the link:
It's beautiful. How many NFL coaches have lost their jobs through the years because they have a specific way of doing things, and they will not deviate from that way, no matter what the talent around them dictates? Fox has not only been flexible, he's taken it to an absolute extreme. It's such a massive change of pace from the traditional copycat nature of the NFL that it almost makes me want to root for Fox and Tebow.

The reality for John Fox, though, is that he doesn't have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He has what he has, and he's embracing it full force. That's a pretty good way to go about things.

I don't know if anyone would argue that the Broncos are more competitive on defense and special teams than the Redskins are this year, but against a significantly more difficult schedule, John Fox is winning games with Tim Tebow.

I'm actually writing about the sustainability of the Broncos offense right now and why I think Fox doesn't really understand why what he and Mike McCoy are running on offense is working. I don't think he understands why this offense is fundamentally more sustainable than the wildcat. But I offer this comparison:

Tim Tebow NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Michael Vick NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

That's the first 732 action plays of Michael Vick's NFL career against Tebow's career to date. It's, uh, similar. Both are getting about 7 yards per attempt early on in their career on runs to boot.

I don't think Tebow can run this offense deep into his career. But he's under contract through his age 27 season, and there's no reason to believe the Broncos can't just run a variation of what they are doing now every year, winning 9-10 games a season in the process. It makes Tebow's shelf life in this league kind of short, but there's a lot of quarterbacks who were believed in by the scouts who would have killed to have 3.5 successful seasons in their pro careers.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Good article, this supports the points I have made about MS/KS and not modifying their system to the in-house talent.

John Fox: Tim Tebow would be ‘screwed’ in a normal offense - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

From the link:
It's beautiful. How many NFL coaches have lost their jobs through the years because they have a specific way of doing things, and they will not deviate from that way, no matter what the talent around them dictates? Fox has not only been flexible, he's taken it to an absolute extreme. It's such a massive change of pace from the traditional copycat nature of the NFL that it almost makes me want to root for Fox and Tebow.

The reality for John Fox, though, is that he doesn't have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He has what he has, and he's embracing it full force. That's a pretty good way to go about things.

I read this same article i guess 2 days ago and thought about posting it somewhere but couldnt think of what thread it fit best in. Im really glad you posted it and i completely agree that being flexible is a pretty good way to go about things.

Obviously you design your team and get players you think are best suited to fit within those parameters, but when you are unable to get everything you want or are just dealing with injuries like every other team you have to be flexible. The NFL is way to dynamic for a coach not to be.

The NFL is a very unique sport in that it’s the ultimate team sport, which makes it the ultimate coach’s sport. While the nfl has about the same amount of teams as other major sports it requires many more athletes then every other sport and almost every single starter only does one thing and has only done that one thing since college. It also a complicated sport to learn and doesn’t have as many “farm systems”, if any, compared to other major sports and the US is really the only country that produces athletes needed for the sport. Careers are also shorter partly because pro players start playing later but also because injuries are the norm and expected at every position. There are also barely any games compared to others sports, which makes every game a must win. And there’s a salary cap and floor so you cant just buy a team.

The point is the only way a coach can have every player he wants for every position executing each assignment while fighting with an opposing player attempting to do the opposite is by dreaming. Every once in while it may happen and you take advantage of those situation because you know that its not gonna last for long. The rest of the time you take advantage of what you got and call plays with more square holes and less round ones.