Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

"War" on Christmas and gay marriage bans are two issues that are motivated heavily by religious beliefs. Now I'll be the first to admit that the War on Christmas is petty and a pointless cause for those that believe heavily in separation of church and state. Maybe it's to distract the far right from pushing creationism in public schools. I don't know. Personally I don't care for it either way. To me Christmas is purely a commercial holiday.

Gay marriage on the other hand is simply motivated by mass-hysteria promoted by religion and virtually every argument for the ban is motivated either by religious beliefs and/or pure homophobia. Neither of which provides just cause to produce such a ban. Scientific, peer reviewed studies on the other hand fail time and time again to produce any factual evidence for the myth's about gay marriage produced by the far right.



The constitution states, plain as day, that religion is not to have a place in determining policy. That means that if the Far Right can't provide anything beyond the Leviticus passage they can't seek legal means to invoke a ban on civil unions and gay marriage.

And even if the majority of Americans were opposed to gay marriage there are controls in government designed to protect the interests of the minority. Provided those interests aren't based in religious beliefs and/or hate unless said issue is explicit religious persecution, which is a violation of the first amendment.

The only legitimate arguments I've seen against gay marriage cite potential exploitation regarding spousal privilege in criminal cases and green card marriages. And even then we have to admit that spousal privilege is a huge exploit in our legal system. Not to mention an outdated concept that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Anyway bottom line is this. Anyone with a far in front of their name should encourage you to run like hell.

I dont think you hear me. These stances cant be considered far right, left or far anything else in our country. When nearly half of the people believe in them you cant consider them extreme or "far" type issues from the norm.

So while these issues may make people very divided, both sides express mainstream views no matter how rational or irrational those opposing views are. There are plenty of times i dont like it either, but that doesnt mean someone that who disagrees with me is an extremist, its statistically implausible.

[NC_Skins]

Greatest Rick Perry quote ever and possibly quote of the century:



"I am truly offended that the American public would be hoodwinked by stories that do not scientifically hold up."






Punchline: He believes in God.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I dont think you hear me. These stances cant be considered far right, left or far anything else in our country. When nearly half of the people believe in them you cant consider them extreme or "far" type issues from the norm.

So while these issues may make people very divided, both sides express mainstream views no matter how rational or irrational those opposing views are. There are plenty of times i dont like it either, but that doesnt mean someone that who disagrees with me is an extremist, its statistically implausible.

Okay now I understand what you're getting at. Make no mistake about it though. A lot of those numbers for those that oppose gay marriage and civil unions are from the over 50 crowd. If it's not far right by the numbers now then it will be in time. Only 35% oppose both civil unions and gay marriage.

Another interesting aspect of the poll

In other news though it's nice to see that Ron Paul has a chance to win the GOP. In fact if he wins the nomination I might just register to vote for him. Then again I live in a red state so it might be a moot point.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Okay now I understand what you're getting at. Make no mistake about it though. A lot of those numbers for those that oppose gay marriage and civil unions are from the over 50 crowd. If it's not far right by the numbers now then it will be in time. Only 35% oppose both civil unions and gay marriage.

Another interesting aspect of the poll

In other news though it's nice to see that Ron Paul has a chance to win the GOP. In fact if he wins the nomination I might just register to vote for him. Then again I live in a red state so it might be a moot point.

I wouldn't waste too much time analyzing Gallup presidential polls. They're all snapshots, but Gallup in particular is becoming more of an outlier and usually lags about +5 points behind public sentiment. There's zero chance Ron Paul becomes the GOP nominee, in my opinion. His views on foreign policy resonate with his base of followers and a small faction of liberals, but on the whole they don't reflect conservative values and I think the direction he wants to take government is pretty radical. I think a Ron Paul victory in Iowa is an indicator of how irrelevant Iowa has become in primary voting and not a reflection of Ron Paul's strength as a candidate. But we shall see.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

His views on foreign policy resonate with his base of followers and a small faction of liberals, but on the whole they don't reflect conservative values and I think the direction he wants to take government is pretty radical.

You mean the foreign policy that says we won't be meddling in other people's affairs? Dear god that's a great thing. Did you happen to watch that video I posted on the other page? Apparently not.

I think Americans are tired of war and want our government to get the hell out of other people's business and tend to our own. Paul is hands down the better candidate of those other clueless monkeys.



Also, this.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-out-and-said/

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You mean the foreign policy that says we won't be meddling in other people's affairs? Dear god that's a great thing. Did you happen to watch that video I posted on the other page? Apparently not.

I think Americans are tired of war and want our government to get the hell out of other people's business and tend to our own. Paul is hands down the better candidate of those other clueless monkeys.



Also, this.

PolitiFact | Michele Bachmann says "PolitiFact came out and said that everything I said was true" in last debate

You think the current administration likes war? We just ended the war in Iraq with Republicans kicking and screaming because we didn't leave 10,000 troops behind. And the President will begin a significant draw down in Afghanistan next summer. Exactly how is Ron Paul different than Obama or even John Huntsman on those two fronts? In fact, Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul agree to some extent about the wars. President Obama doesn't believe in torture, neither does Ron Paul. President Obama wants to close Gitmo and so does Ron Paul and John McCain and John Huntsman, I might add.

Now where they differ, and Ron Paul hasn't been completely clear on this, is how to execute the war on terror and sending foreign aid to some of our allies, which has always been a staple of good diplomacy.

Look, the idea that America with all of it's vast military resources and diplomatic clout around the globe will completely stay out other countries business is foolish thinking and probably not in our long term interests when it comes to a range of issues. If our intervention in Libya can keep the price of oil from spiking globally and keep inflation in check here at home, then I'm all for a measured response and a judicious use of our military capability.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You think the current administration likes war? We just ended the war in Iraq with Republicans kicking and screaming because we didn't leave 10,000 troops behind. And the President will begin a significant draw down in Afghanistan next summer. Exactly how is Ron Paul different than Obama or even John Huntsman on those two fronts? In fact, Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul agree to some extent about the wars. President Obama doesn't believe in torture, neither does Ron Paul. President Obama wants to close Gitmo and so does Ron Paul and John McCain and John Huntsman, I might add.

You haven't been paying attention to his time in office. What he's said he will do and what he's done has been opposite of each other.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You haven't been paying attention to his time in office. What he's said he will do and what he's done has been opposite of each other.

So what hasn't he done that he said he would? And give me specifics.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

President Obama doesn't believe in torture, neither does Ron Paul. President Obama wants to close Gitmo and so does Ron Paul and John McCain and John Huntsman, I might add.

Obama's true stance on Gitmo.

The Obama/Gitmo timeline - Guantanamo - Salon.com




Obama promises to veto law that allows indefinite detention of civilians but signs it anyway.

Happy Birthday, Bill [of Rights]: Obama Breaks Promise To Veto Bill Allowing Indefinite Detention of Americans « JONATHAN TURLEY


Obama signs extension of Patriot Act.

Patriot Act Extension Signed By Obama



You were saying again?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Obama's true stance on Gitmo.

The Obama/Gitmo timeline - Guantanamo - Salon.com




Obama promises to veto law that allows indefinite detention of civilians but signs it anyway.

Happy Birthday, Bill [of Rights]: Obama Breaks Promise To Veto Bill Allowing Indefinite Detention of Americans « JONATHAN TURLEY


Obama signs extension of Patriot Act.

Patriot Act Extension Signed By Obama



You were saying again?

Obama isn't going to rock the boat when it comes to "national security" issues and neither is the next guy in charge. He half-heatedly tried to close Gitmo and caved when the GOP threw a tantrum.

Good thing most of numnuts on the GOP side aren't of better quality than Obama. I pray Huntsman comes through.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You think the current administration likes war? We just ended the war in Iraq with Republicans kicking and screaming because we didn't leave 10,000 troops behind. And the President will begin a significant draw down in Afghanistan next summer. Exactly how is Ron Paul different than Obama or even John Huntsman on those two fronts? In fact, Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul agree to some extent about the wars. President Obama doesn't believe in torture, neither does Ron Paul. President Obama wants to close Gitmo and so does Ron Paul and John McCain and John Huntsman, I might add.

Now where they differ, and Ron Paul hasn't been completely clear on this, is how to execute the war on terror and sending foreign aid to some of our allies, which has always been a staple of good diplomacy.

Look, the idea that America with all of it's vast military resources and diplomatic clout around the globe will completely stay out other countries business is foolish thinking and probably not in our long term interests when it comes to a range of issues. If our intervention in Libya can keep the price of oil from spiking globally and keep inflation in check here at home, then I'm all for a measured response and a judicious use of our military capability.

I just heard on the news that some of the troops coming home from Iraq will not be here long because they will be headed to Afganistan.