Who Stays-Who Goes? (Offense)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

See I doubt any consideration was given to making a change at this point by either Snyder or Allen. You've been detailed and consistent in your criticism of Shanahan and some of his moves but I guess I see it a little differently. I see a 2009 team that was a mishmash of Gibbs style, Zorn non-style and Snyderatto spending. Everyone Shanahan has brought in has come in for a specific purpose in the system.

This roster while incomplete, has a plan now attached to it. If he was able to win 10 games with this roster, he should have been up for coach of the decade. Now I know what you will say, he compiled this roster, which is true. To that I also add you can't reset a roster and stockpile it with exactly who and what you want. That's a Madden mentality. There was nothing on either side of the ball to build around when he got it so we are seeing about 30% of the work done but he still had to have 53 men on the roster.

Agree that 10 wins would have been an unrealistic goal for this roster, but maybe not for a roster with better design. I think Shanahan and his staff are really struggling with game management. But I don't think he (or many others) could have coached this team to 10 wins. Last year's team definitely had more potential, and had to be considered a much bigger disappointment overall.

I do wish people would stop saying this roster now has a plan attached to it without ever going into even the first detail of what the plan is. It's not just you, but that seems like a fundamental (and completely) unjustified belief of the last two years: we've been following a plan. Well, actually, we've just been making moves that don't point in any specific direction in terms of the present or future. Sometimes Shanahan values discipline over talent, other times talent and character over discipline. And it just seems to matter how he feels when he gets up that morning.

I agree that the 2009 team didn't have much of a focus either. We were heavily invested in defensive talent, but couldn't been less invested in the coaching or performance of the defense. The offense was under a microscope because there was no return on investment on the picks at WR, making the entire passing game dependent on Randle El (who had some very good years). Zorn stopped calling west coast plays after two weeks, stripped the offense back to it's Gibbs-era routes, then lost his playcalling duties so we went back to being a west coast team. It really was a mish-mash of successful and failed strategies.

And yet, the similarities between then and now are staggering. I think they've gotten consistently better at making fewer unforced mental errors, but then you see the Eagles game and you just have to wonder if it was all a mirage. It was a bad note to end on for sure. That game was as poor an effort in preparedness as any in the Zorn era.

You or I have a better chance at being the QB next year than a Tannehill or some other second tier QB prospect.

As much as I wish this was true...its not. I think the probability of one of Foles/Tannehill/Jones/Cousins being targeted as the next Redskins QB is pretty darn high.

And I don't think Foles is second tier at all, but that's my evaluation and no one should hold the Shanahans to that.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Agree that 10 wins would have been an unrealistic goal for this roster, but maybe not for a roster with better design. I think Shanahan and his staff are really struggling with game management. But I don't think he (or many others) could have coached this team to 10 wins. Last year's team definitely had more potential, and had to be considered a much bigger disappointment overall.

I do wish people would stop saying this roster now has a plan attached to it without ever going into even the first detail of what the plan is. It's not just you, but that seems like a fundamental (and completely) unjustified belief of the last two years: we've been following a plan. Well, actually, we've just been making moves that don't point in any specific direction in terms of the present or future. Sometimes Shanahan values discipline over talent, other times talent and character over discipline. And it just seems to matter how he feels when he gets up that morning.

I agree that the 2009 team didn't have much of a focus either. We were heavily invested in defensive talent, but couldn't been less invested in the coaching or performance of the defense. The offense was under a microscope because there was no return on investment on the picks at WR, making the entire passing game dependent on Randle El (who had some very good years). Zorn stopped calling west coast plays after two weeks, stripped the offense back to it's Gibbs-era routes, then lost his playcalling duties so we went back to being a west coast team. It really was a mish-mash of successful and failed strategies.

And yet, the similarities between then and now are staggering. I think they've gotten consistently better at making fewer unforced mental errors, but then you see the Eagles game and you just have to wonder if it was all a mirage. It was a bad note to end on for sure. That game was as poor an effort in preparedness as any in the Zorn era.

As much as I wish this was true...its not. I think the probability of one of Foles/Tannehill/Jones/Cousins being targeted as the next Redskins QB is pretty darn high.

And I don't think Foles is second tier at all, but that's my evaluation and no one should hold the Shanahans to that.

Here is where we differ in our interpretation of the 'plan'.
2010, see if he can win with the roster in place with a few tweaks.. Bringing in McNabb, changing to a 3-4 with many of the same pieces, minor roster modifications. Stayed with Haynesworth, Portis, Griffin, Daniels, brought in older vets to try to 'make a run' and see if he could make chicken salad from chicken ----.

2011, fix the defense and start changing the roster. Draft was primarily about the defense, free agency was almost all about the defense. He's committed to a 3-4, thinking it is the foundation for championships so he wants to build that first. Offense is secondary and no real effort (or significant money) is spent on that side of the ball. Our combined QB group makes less than any other starting QB alone. Our combined WR group has no committed money past 2013. Our RB group had 2 rookies and a pending free agent. There's nothing but flexibility to fix that side of the ball with no money or immovable roster spots.

2012, fix the offense. Free agency will be spent on WR, OL and RB. QB will be addressed in the draft. 2012 will be the beginning of the team that will define the Shanny era in DC.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Here is where we differ in our interpretation of the 'plan'.
2010, see if he can win with the roster in place with a few tweaks.. Bringing in McNabb, changing to a 3-4 with many of the same pieces, minor roster modifications. Stayed with Haynesworth, Portis, Griffin, Daniels, brought in older vets to try to 'make a run' and see if he could make chicken salad from chicken ----.

2011, fix the defense and start changing the roster. Draft was primarily about the defense, free agency was almost all about the defense. He's committed to a 3-4, thinking it is the foundation for championships so he wants to build that first. Offense is secondary and no real effort (or significant money) is spent on that side of the ball. Our combined QB group makes less than any other starting QB alone. Our combined WR group has no committed money past 2013. Our RB group had 2 rookies and a pending free agent. There's nothing but flexibility to fix that side of the ball with no money or immovable roster spots.

2012, fix the offense. Free agency will be spent on WR, OL and RB. QB will be addressed in the draft. 2012 will be the beginning of the team that will define the Shanny era in DC.

That's not a plan or the plan, that's a recap of what actually happened: we changed what we're doing at the on-set of every season.

Rest assured that this offseason will not follow the same pattern last offseason did. Job security is a serious issue now and the 2011 team didn't improve as much over the 2010 disaster as the coaches were predicting. Shanahan thinks he built a 10 win team that got ravaged by injury this year. No, I'm serious. He said that. He said that today.

I think enough went right in 2011 (including that the rest of the division didn't play very well) where an aggressive offseason trying to make a run at a division title in 2012 is worth trying. The offense was perhaps better than we all expected to be. The defense ended up being adequate. Maybe not as good as they anticipated it being, but adequate.

But we need to not act like the plan all along was to totally waste two seasons replacing the window curtains before going for broke in 2012. We've been through Plan A, B, and C, and we're already passed the point where most coaches would have survived. The last three (non-Gibbs) coaches didn't survive past this point.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

That's not a plan or the plan, that's a recap of what actually happened: we changed what we're doing at the on-set of every season.

Rest assured that this offseason will not follow the same pattern last offseason did. Job security is a serious issue now and the 2011 team didn't improve as much over the 2010 disaster as the coaches were predicting. Shanahan thinks he built a 10 win team that got ravaged by injury this year. No, I'm serious. He said that. He said that today.

I think enough went right in 2011 (including that the rest of the division didn't play very well) where an aggressive offseason trying to make a run at a division title in 2012 is worth trying. The offense was perhaps better than we all expected to be. The defense ended up being adequate. Maybe not as good as they anticipated it being, but adequate.

But we need to not act like the plan all along was to totally waste two seasons replacing the window curtains before going for broke in 2012. We've been through Plan A, B, and C, and we're already passed the point where most coaches would have survived. The last three (non-Gibbs) coaches didn't survive past this point.

Yeah man, we just see it differently. At this point it is a recap but even in the recap the plan seems pretty evident to me. Draft and money all went into the defense last offseason. During the season, many of the announcers who did our games mentioned that in the production meeting Shanny said they planned to focus on the D first and this offseason was about fixing the O. Only time will tell but I see progress in roster construction and a plan in action.