Roster transition in the Shanny era

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Do you or do you not feel like we could have used those two guys on this years team?

I think I'm guilty of misrepresenting my own points at times. I do not think the Redskins have failed under Mike Shanahan because they granted Andre Carter his release instead of talking him into staying and making a fortune on his annual salary, and because they decided they could replace Carlos Rogers through free agency. We have more or less replaced the contribution of those "pro bowlers" with a first round pick and a free agent signing at corner. The issue, of course, is the lack of steady (2009-2012), clear improvement. But I think those are high-profile lapses in judgement/talent evaluation brought to light by the combination of the Redskins not being good and those guys (justifiably) being elected to the pro-bowl.

I wanted to talk more about how the Redskins struggle to evaluate talent, but oddly, no one seems to wants to argue against that point. Of course, whenever I talk about other symptomatic mistakes the Redskins make more consistently that maybe don't get as much publicity...well, why don't you go back through the thread and I can save you six paragraphs.

In short: people dismiss minor symptomatic moves as trival mistakes that no one should care about, and then they come up with individual justifications for moves that received a lot of publicity and were obviously wrong (McNabb). Then, based on some creative justifications, they arrive at the conclusion that the Redskins don't have an issue evaluating talent. For someone like me who doesn't need to eat food because I can sustain myself on a diet of haterade, well, logic and reasoning are much easier without the delusion.

So were T. Williams, Riley, Paulson, Bowen, Carriker, Cofield, Gaffney, Hightower, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes and Royster examples of poor talent evaluation? Were the 52 players released and now out of the NFL examples of poor talent evaluation?

I guess I kinda feel like Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men.. Please tell me you have more than Rinehart, E. Williams and Justin Tryon.. Please tell me this is about more than Carter and Rogers.. We're talking about the future of our beloved franchise, please tell me you're basing your argument on something more than Stephon Heyer.. I'm going back to my base..

So again, for clarification, is the issue who is NOT here anymore or the fact that better players who replaced the 52 departed aren't better players. That I would agree is an issue but I'd offer that there's more at play than just 'poor' talent evaluation.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So were T. Williams, Riley, Paulson, Bowen, Carriker, Cofield, Gaffney, Hightower, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes and Royster examples of poor talent evaluation? Were the 52 players released and now out of the NFL examples of poor talent evaluation?

I guess I kinda feel like Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men.. Please tell me you have more than Rinehart, E. Williams and Justin Tryon.. Please tell me this is about more than Carter and Rogers.. We're talking about the future of our beloved franchise, please tell me you're basing your argument on something more than Stephon Heyer.. I'm going back to my base..

So again, for clarification, is the issue who is NOT here anymore or the fact that better players who replaced the 52 departed aren't better players. That I would agree is an issue but I'd offer that there's more at play than just 'poor' talent evaluation.

Well...talent evaluation is rather critical in pro football. It's as much the story between Patriots vs Rams as it is Belichick vs Spags. Smart to brilliant talent evaluators tend to keep their jobs as long as they wish. Poor ones get canned within a couple years. So far, Mike has been a lousy talent-evaluator more often than not, and especially where it counts most in pro football...at quarterback. But he's the "safest" coach in pro football tonight.

And you cannot say "rebuild the defense in season 1" or why else McNabb? Why additions at WR? I just don't see the planning angle you do...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So were T. Williams, Riley, Paulson, Bowen, Carriker, Cofield, Gaffney, Hightower, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes and Royster examples of poor talent evaluation? Were the 52 players released and now out of the NFL examples of poor talent evaluation?

Well, when Zorn left SOMEONE FORGOT TO LOCK THE BACK DOOR and Mike Williams and Casey Rabach got contract extensions as a result.

To answer your question, no. I mean, you shouldn't need more examples of poor talent evaluation than I have provided to believe there is a problem. Compile a list of names of the players who the Redskins have targeted and acquired in trades (McNabb, Brown, Hightower, and well, yes, Gaffney). Compile a list of names of the players who the Redskins have targeted and extended (M. Williams, Rabach, Moss, Montgomery, Alexander, Doughty) from their own roster. Now consider who the the core players on this team are and have been and how many of those guys have actually been awarded contract extensions since Dec. 2009 vs who has been allowed to walk.

My assertion there would be that at least 20 other NFL teams, and probably 25, could match the names on your list just with moves dating back to March 2010. It's not something we should believe that Mike has brought an unprecedented amount of good football players into the organization. He had a strong draft in 2011. Some teams had a good draft in 2010. The Redskins weren't one of those teams. Neither the 2010 or the 2011 draft is going to define our personnel department the way the evidence I provided throughout this thread is going to.

I guess I kinda feel like Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men.. Please tell me you have more than Rinehart, E. Williams and Justin Tryon.. Please tell me this is about more than Carter and Rogers.. We're talking about the future of our beloved franchise, please tell me you're basing your argument on something more than Stephon Heyer.. I'm going back to my base..

So again, for clarification, is the issue who is NOT here anymore or the fact that better players who replaced the 52 departed aren't better players. That I would agree is an issue but I'd offer that there's more at play than just 'poor' talent evaluation.

I think the strength of my argument speaks for itself. I mean, if you boil it down in a way so that you're just looking at guys like Tryon, Rinehart, and Edwin Williams alone, well, then that point isn't strong. If you're just looking at Carter and Rogers alone, well, that point isn't strong. If you're just looking at McNabb, well, then that point doesn't mean much by itself. Actually that's lunacy, no one thinks highly of the McNabb trade.

If you actually realize that the struggles the Redskins have had to identify the players within their own building that are worth keeping and building around vs the ones that are totally useless and out of the league the day they are handed their walking papers has been completely unprecedented in the NFL these last two years, well, then that's not weak at all, it's very telling.

You could maybe, maybe argue that the Mike Holmgren Browns have been just as bad at evaluating talent as the Mike Shanahan Redskins. That team did let a lot of the talent that Rob Ryan brought into that organization walk for nothing. But I don't know if "we do it as well as those schlubs in Cleveland!" has quite the same ring as the fact that "we're finally getting our QB this year" whether or not it is true.

And Colt McCoy is a better quarterback than anyone that Mike Shanahan has brought to town to date, which would be the tiebreaker between the two organizations.