Roster transition in the Shanny era

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

There's a difference between saying that a guy is competent in the draft and saying he's one of the best drafters in the league. In Shanahan's case, only one is true.

If we want to get technical, Vinny Cerrato was a pretty good drafter as well. Couldn't build a team without trading picks for frivolous parts, but I have no real issue with his draft work.

Wait, what?!? You're not serious I hope.

2000 draft-8 picks, 2 starters (Arrington, Samuels), 6 remaining players made no NFL impact and are out of the league.
2002 draft-10 picks, 3 role players/backups (Ramsey, Betts, Cartwright), 7 players no NFL impact/out of NFL.
2003 draft-3 picks, 1 starter/role player (Dockery), 2 no impact/out of NFL.
2004 draft-4 picks, 2 starters (Taylor, Cooley) 2 no impact/out of NFL.
2005 draft-6 picks, 2 starters (Campbell, Rogers), 4 no impact/out of NFL.
2006 draft-6 picks, 3 role players/backups (McIntosh, Doughty, Golston), 3 no impact/out of NFL.
2007 draft-6 picks, 1 starter (Landry), 5 no impact/out of NFL.
2008 draft-10 picks, 0 starters, 1 performer (Davis), 3 role players (Thomas, Rinehart, Jackson), 8 no impact/out of NFL.
2009 draft-6 picks, 1 starter (Orakpo), 1 backup (Barnes), 4 no impact/out of NFL.
2010 draft-1 pick (2009 supplemental), out of NFL.

So by my rudimentary math, that's 54 picks, 9 starters (10 if you want to include Davis), 11 backups and 34 players that made no NFL impact and were out of the league within 3 years of being drafted.

I'd love to read how you spin this to 'a pretty good drafter' and 'no problems with his draft work'.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wait, what?!? You're not serious I hope.

2000 draft-8 picks, 2 starters (Arrington, Samuels), 6 remaining players made no NFL impact and are out of the league.
2002 draft-10 picks, 3 role players/backups (Ramsey, Betts, Cartwright), 7 players no NFL impact/out of NFL.
2003 draft-3 picks, 1 starter/role player (Dockery), 2 no impact/out of NFL.
2004 draft-4 picks, 2 starters (Taylor, Cooley) 2 no impact/out of NFL.
2005 draft-6 picks, 2 starters (Campbell, Rogers), 4 no impact/out of NFL.
2006 draft-6 picks, 3 role players/backups (McIntosh, Doughty, Golston), 3 no impact/out of NFL.
2007 draft-6 picks, 1 starter (Landry), 5 no impact/out of NFL.
2008 draft-10 picks, 0 starters, 1 performer (Davis), 3 role players (Thomas, Rinehart, Jackson), 8 no impact/out of NFL.
2009 draft-6 picks, 1 starter (Orakpo), 1 backup (Barnes), 4 no impact/out of NFL.
2010 draft-1 pick (2009 supplemental), out of NFL.

So by my rudimentary math, that's 54 picks, 9 starters (10 if you want to include Davis), 11 backups and 34 players that made no NFL impact and were out of the league within 3 years of being drafted.

I'd love to read how you spin this to 'a pretty good drafter' and 'no problems with his draft work'.

This is Denver's draft record through 2008.

This is Washington's draft record through 2009.

A lot of ink has been spilled on the quality of the 2006 Denver draft, and certainly, it would rank right around the top of any draft the Redskins had in the last decade.

It's also worth pointing out that Denver used to live in a world where Deltha O'Neal (who was DeAngelo Hall before DeAngelo Hall), DJ Williams, and Ashley Lelie were some of the more successful Denver picks. For a six year stretch between 2000-2005, that was absolutely the case.

The two best draft picks (notwithstanding the unfinished careers of talented guys like Clady, Dumerville, and Marshall) of the Denver/Shanahan era (at least post-2000) were Portis and Cutler. The first two Cerrato picks were Samuels/Arrington. There is probably a discussion to be had about the positional value there, but once you get beyond the comparable successes into cases like Sean Taylor (short, sensational career), Darrent Williams (much shorter, no less promising career) and Marshall (short, enigmatic career, had a career year in 2011 elsewhere), the only true thing you know is that the Redskins never stopped giving away draft picks even at the very end.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is Denver's draft record through 2008.

This is Washington's draft record through 2009.

A lot of ink has been spilled on the quality of the 2006 Denver draft, and certainly, it would rank right around the top of any draft the Redskins had in the last decade.

It's also worth pointing out that Denver used to live in a world where Deltha O'Neal (who was DeAngelo Hall before DeAngelo Hall), DJ Williams, and Ashley Lelie were some of the more successful Denver picks. For a six year stretch between 2000-2005, that was absolutely the case.

The two best draft picks (notwithstanding the unfinished careers of talented guys like Clady, Dumerville, and Marshall) of the Denver/Shanahan era (at least post-2000) were Portis and Cutler. The first two Cerrato picks were Samuels/Arrington. There is probably a discussion to be had about the positional value there, but once you get beyond the comparable successes into cases like Sean Taylor (short, sensational career), Darrent Williams (much shorter, no less promising career) and Marshall (short, enigmatic career, had a career year in 2011 elsewhere), the only true thing you know is that the Redskins never stopped giving away draft picks even at the very end.

Not sure how this validates Vinny as 'a pretty good drafter'. Can it be said that at this stage Shanahan has a better 2 year draft record in Washington than any consecutive two yrs of Cerrato. That's a low bar but I'm trying to get your gauge of 'pretty good'.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Not sure how this validates Vinny as 'a pretty good drafter'. Can it be said that at this stage Shanahan has a better 2 year draft record in Washington than any consecutive two yrs of Cerrato. That's a low bar but I'm trying to get your gauge of 'pretty good'.

I think that's probably not an unfair defense of the Shanahan era, and I suppose it's accuracy depends one who we attribute the Gibbs drafts to. More to the point, I think Shanahan has outdrafted Cerrato in each of their two most recent drafts.

Vinny's draft record can be validated only by his proficiency in the first round where the stakes are highest and comparatively by Shanahan's struggles in the first round. It wasn't coincidental that Cerrato's worst drafts came when the Redskins did not have a first round pick.

Personally, I'm not yet sure what we have in Trent Williams outside of someone who is both talented and young (which would be the top two criteria for a draft pick), although Kerrigan seems like a far better bet.