Hall of Fame Class of 2012

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Enshrinement » Class of 2012 Finalists

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee’s 17 finalists (15 modern-era and two senior nominees*) with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Jerome Bettis – Running Back – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Jack Butler* – Cornerback – 1951-59 Pittsburgh Steelers

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Dermontti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr. – Owner – 1977-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene – Linebacker/Defensive End – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin – Running Back – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Bill Parcells – Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf – Tackle – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Will Shields – Guard – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Dick Stanfel* – Guard – 1952-55 Detroit Lions, 1956-58 Washington Redskins

Aeneas Williams – Cornerback/Safety – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

C. Kennedy, W. Roaf & Parcells are my bets, several others I'm on the fence on. Really weak class of RBs, the O line candidates are strong. Haley will be hard to deny, except for the fact the dude was crazy! C. Carter & T. Brown will both get in, but not both at this time.

Mann is our best candidate overall, but he's got some tough competition. Jacoby I think is going to suffer from comparison to modern day, quick foot OTs & he could never block LT or Banks. B. Mitchell is only in the conversation as a returner, can't really say he deserves to be in.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

C. Kennedy, W. Roaf & Parcells are my bets, several others I'm on the fence on. Really weak class of RBs, the O line candidates are strong. Haley will be hard to deny, except for the fact the dude was crazy! C. Carter & T. Brown will both get in, but not both at this time.

Mann is our best candidate overall, but he's got some tough competition. Jacoby I think is going to suffer from comparison to modern day, quick foot OTs & he could never block LT or Banks. B. Mitchell is only in the conversation as a returner, can't really say he deserves to be in.

I loved watching Curtis Martin run, he could bring it and was on pace to break Emmitt(run out of bounds or fold up like a tent) Smiths record when he got hurt. Martin was a good tough rb.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

C. Kennedy, W. Roaf & Parcells are my bets, several others I'm on the fence on. Really weak class of RBs, the O line candidates are strong. Haley will be hard to deny, except for the fact the dude was crazy! C. Carter & T. Brown will both get in, but not both at this time.

Mann is our best candidate overall, but he's got some tough competition. Jacoby I think is going to suffer from comparison to modern day, quick foot OTs & he could never block LT or Banks. B. Mitchell is only in the conversation as a returner, can't really say he deserves to be in.

How can you say Martin and Bettis are a "weak class"?

I am also not a Parcells fan. Look when he had real success - he had the HC in NE on his staff. When Bill B wasn't there, Parcells was average at best.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

How can you say Martin and Bettis are a "weak class"?

I am also not a Parcells fan. Look when he had real success - he had the HC in NE on his staff. When Bill B wasn't there, Parcells was average at best.

Those two might be the most deserving of the class. Bettis IMO is a good candidate. Martin was good, not great, and more than anything deserves credit for longevity. Not sure that's enough for the hall though.

Overall though, there are some RBs in that class that are nowhere near HOF level, e.g. Stephen Davis & Tikki Barber. Both were good players, but also fumble prone & were not consistenly great through their careers.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

How can you say Martin and Bettis are a "weak class"?

I am also not a Parcells fan. Look when he had real success - he had the HC in NE on his staff. When Bill B wasn't there, Parcells was average at best.

The Tuna won 2 super bowls in NY, went to another in NE, got the jets competitive, built a good team in Dallas that was competitive, & built a decent roster in Miami, though that's hard to see now.

I know Parcells had Belicheck for part of his career, but if you use that logic you can always downgrade anyone's success & Parcells had success w/out Belicheck.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

The Tuna won 2 super bowls in NY, went to another in NE, got the jets competitive, built a good team in Dallas that was competitive, & built a decent roster in Miami, though that's hard to see now.

I know Parcells had Belicheck for part of his career, but if you use that logic you can always downgrade anyone's success & Parcells had success w/out Belicheck.

Yes, his 2 Super Bowls in NY and 3rd in NE, who was by his side as DC? Belicheck. When Belicheck wasn't there - what did Parcells do? Bill B was HC in Cleveland from 91-95. How many Super Bowls did Parcells go to then?

He made the playoffs in Dallas but got no where. Miami wasn't any better. Parcells only real success happened not because of Parcells.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Yes, his 2 Super Bowls in NY and 3rd in NE, who was by his side as DC? Belicheck. When Belicheck wasn't there - what did Parcells do? Bill B was HC in Cleveland from 91-95. How many Super Bowls did Parcells go to then?

He made the playoffs in Dallas but got no where. Miami wasn't any better. Parcells only real success happened not because of Parcells.

Then why did'nt Belichick do well in Cleveland ?Your argument does'nt stand up ....at all.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Then why did'nt Belichick do well in Cleveland ?Your argument does'nt stand up ....at all.

If memory serves, Belichick was starting to get that team turned around and then Modell announced the move to Baltimore and it fell apart.

Even if my memory is off on that, Bill B had success without Parcells, but Parcells hasn't done squat without Bill B.

edit: Heck, how many playoff games has Parcells won without Bill B on his staff? I bet you they could be counted on 1 hand.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Yes, his 2 Super Bowls in NY and 3rd in NE, who was by his side as DC? Belicheck. When Belicheck wasn't there - what did Parcells do? Bill B was HC in Cleveland from 91-95. How many Super Bowls did Parcells go to then?

He made the playoffs in Dallas but got no where. Miami wasn't any better. Parcells only real success happened not because of Parcells.

Is this guy for real?

So who assembled the talent on those teams that went to the Super Bowl? Belicheck? In fact, you do realize that a core of the players that Belicheck won his first Super Bowl with were drafted by Parcells. Parcells put the talent on the Cowboys squad to contend year in and year out, and we were fortunate that Jerry chose that idiot Wade to coach it. Had it been a decent coach, the Boys would have won 2 more Super Bowls by now. Also, turned Miami to last place loser to division champs.

If you want to swing on Belicheck's sack that much, what is your excuse for the Cleveland Browns showing?


Parcells is probably one of the most talented guys ever in NFL history when it comes to talent and coaching. In fact, if I had to let one guy build my team from ground up and could chose one person the history of the NFL, it would in fact be Parcells. Hands down.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Is this guy for real?

So who assembled the talent on those teams that went to the Super Bowl? Belicheck? In fact, you do realize that a core of the players that Belicheck won his first Super Bowl with were drafted by Parcells. Parcells put the talent on the Cowboys squad to contend year in and year out, and we were fortunate that Jerry chose that idiot Wade to coach it. Had it been a decent coach, the Boys would have won 2 more Super Bowls by now. Also, turned Miami to last place loser to division champs.

If you want to swing on Belicheck's sack that much, what is your excuse for the Cleveland Browns showing?


Parcells is probably one of the most talented guys ever in NFL history when it comes to talent and coaching. In fact, if I had to let one guy build my team from ground up and could chose one person the history of the NFL, it would in fact be Parcells. Hands down.

I certainly am not against debate, especially since I have taken an unpopular position and have been defending it.

If you want to engage me in debate, then read what I have already posted before you tell me I am wrong. I say this because you are asking me questions I have already addressed.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

I certainly am not against debate, especially since I have taken an unpopular position and have been defending it.

If you want to engage me in debate, then read what I have already posted before you tell me I am wrong. I say this because you are asking me questions I have already addressed.

I think you are entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like you are over reaching with your arguments against Parcells. I really don't care much about Parcells, but it is a bit ridiculous to argue that his success came ONLY because of Bill Belichick. One of the hallmarks of good head coaches is their ability to mentor and develop their assistant coaches and coordinators. In the end, I would have imagine that Parcells had to hire and supervise Belichick, and the other coaches that serve under him. I mean if we go with your argument, should we say that Joe Gibbs lack of success in his second round of being a head coaches shows that he was nothing without his previous asst. coaches and coordinators? I think not.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Yes, his 2 Super Bowls in NY and 3rd in NE, who was by his side as DC? Belicheck. When Belicheck wasn't there - what did Parcells do? Bill B was HC in Cleveland from 91-95. How many Super Bowls did Parcells go to then?

He made the playoffs in Dallas but got no where. Miami wasn't any better. Parcells only real success happened not because of Parcells.

Tom Brady is that you??? ya better go get to watching some film before the Orange Crush and Tebow come break the 7th Seal on your ass.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Tom Brady is that you??? ya better go get to watching some film before the Orange Crush and Tebow come break the 7th Seal on your ass.

As a lifetime Steeler fan, that is just flat out mean.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

How can you say Martin and Bettis are a "weak class"?

I am also not a Parcells fan. Look when he had real success - he had the HC in NE on his staff. When Bill B wasn't there, Parcells was average at best.

Parcell belongs there, he beat the shit out of Bill Walsh more than once in the playoffs and almost killed Joe Montana.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Parcell belongs there, he beat the shit out of Bill Walsh more than once in the playoffs and almost killed Joe Montana.

They knocked Montana out twice Burt got him once in 87 and Marshall in 90 they were both brutal hits. That Marshall hit would have sent me to ER.

Burt vs Montana - YouTube

Leonard Marshall knocking Joe Montana out! 1990...