Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[biffle]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post

I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.

[Mahons21]

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards

[Mahons21]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

Wow, didn't know they did that, no surprise about Manning though.

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards

Hah, I sure was, I think I quoted a post of yours specifically. Seems like a lot more valuable information to be found here, with much less filtering, so I figured I might as well just join up.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Football Outsiders' stats show the exact same trend line for Manning as Passer Rating- consistently moving downwarrd, with a bit fo an uptick in 09.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Or it could be that he has less he can afford to lose in physical skill, and less to gain in experience, which could make his decline steeper. In baseball, speed players lose their value less as they age than other players.

In fact, go look at the careers of the 10 QBs Pro Football Reference has as most similar to Manning. It's only the mobile ones- Young, Elway, Favre, Staubach- who didn't become shells of themselves after the age of 35. Montana, who was always reasonably, but not overly, athletic, was still good for a couple of years, but definitely off his peak year performances.
The other 5 on the list (Unitas, Marino, Anderson, Kelly, Fouts), who seem to all fit exactly the profile you laid out- not over athletic, not earth-shattering physical skills, but cerebral and prepared- all would have done well to retire by the age Manning is now.

[whistler]

Manning is clearly on the down side of his carreer. With a neck fusion he is affected for life with limited mobility in his neck area. He was never a drop back passer with Indy most of his time was spent in shotgun (he would step up to make calls but would settle into shotgun formation). If he were to come to the skins he would need the offense taylored to his liking.

The Shanahans currently have no audibles, no two minute offense, and micromanage all aspects of the offense, not sure if that was due to lack of confidence in Grossman/Beck or just their MO. However that would all have to be changed for Manning. Not sure if they are willing to do that for a player with a deficiancy, on the down side of his carreer that doesn't fit the system.

RGIII is young and is probably more coachable that most of the qbs that have been here since the Shannys came in. Also, RGII is more than capable of learning how the drop back in a pro style offense, if he hasn't already learned, all prospects have private coaching proir to the combine.

Barkley please don't go there, when was the last time a USC qb came out that actually had a quality carreer?