Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[biffle]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If you throw a ton of front loaded cap space at Peyton Manning, I think you are right that the $48 million figure can look a lot bigger than it really is. That $48 million can become $12 million really quickly and without guaranteed roster improvement. Look at how much the Redskins spent last year and what they got out of it.

But I do want to say this: Schneed is right when he says there are very limited ways to improve your team with available cap space. I believe the best use of the cap is to have as much available as possible for a day where you have so many critical veteran pieces to your team that you actually need to use that cap space to keep those guys together, but if you pay Peyton Manning mostly through 2012 and 2013 guaranteed roster bonuses, all that cap space spent to get Manning will still be there in 2014, and it limits the room to make bad signings just because you want to dispel the illusion that you are being cheap.

Marginal wins are almost impossible to buy in football with cash, whereas in baseball, you have pretty accurate estimates of a marginal win costing $4.8 million.

I buy your argument that Peyton is in decline, but I think if you strip out the Colts-offense related decline, Peyton's personal decline is much less steep, and you still have a pretty dominant player who is a better quarterback than Eli Manning and Michael Vick in the NFC East.

Well, I certainly agree with you on re-signing your own being the smartest way to spend cap room. But I think there is plenty of good that can be done in the FA market. Just using last year's class of our own, the 2012 costs for the vet FAs we brought in (Cofield, Bowen, Atogwe, Wilson, Chester, Rocca) is right around 24 mil. Is that not a wise use of resources? Is there no way we can envision a repeat of that as a smart way to add to our depth? Or, we could probably sign a couple of guys like Ben Grubbs and Mario Manningham for about the same per year cost as Manning. Just dismissing the other uses of the cap space is not a fair way to look at the two sides of this.

And again, the rollovers mean even if we stayed below the cap, those become dollars we can spend in the future. So an argument centered around an implication that if we don't sign Manning or the dollars go to waste in some way is not really valid, imo.

The problem with arguing this is that it feels like debating arguments built around conflicting points:
A) that we should sign Manning because of the surety of how it will improve us. while at the same time dismissing the cap space argument because there's nothing you can do on the FA market that can really help the team.
B) that we shouldn't draft a QB because the odds are so against finding a star in the draft, while at the same time acting as if whatever else we would do with the draft picks is a sure bet to succeed.


Anyway, I probably won't be around the board much the next few days, so thanks for the convo guys.

[Dirtbag59]

I see it two ways.

Offseason Plan with Peyton:
Sign Peyton
Sign Reggie Wayne
Trade Down and pickup a Stanford lineman in the first (G - David DeCastro or OT Jonathan Martin)
Pick the best second tier QB in the 2nd (Tannehill, Foles, Osweiler)
BPA with the other Second Round pick with a slight favor towards the offensive side of the ball. Or Better yet try to trade down again for a 3rd and fourth.

Offseason Plan with RGIII
Sign Vincent Jackson, Dwayne Bowe, or Marques Colston
Trade 2012 and 2013 First for RGIII
Use Second Round pick on Offensive Lineman
Use third round pick on BPA preferably offense

Granted this is kind of more what I would do but it gives you an idea of what our options are under both scenarios.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I see it two ways.

Offseason Plan with Peyton:
Sign Peyton
Sign Reggie Wayne
Trade Down and pickup a Stanford lineman in the first (G - David DeCastro or OT Jonathan Martin)
Pick the best second tier QB in the 2nd (Tannehill, Foles, Osweiler)
BPA with the other Second Round pick with a slight favor towards the offensive side of the ball. Or Better yet try to trade down again for a 3rd and fourth.

Offseason Plan with RGIII
Sign Vincent Jackson, Dwayne Bowe, or Marques Colston
Trade 2012 and 2013 First for RGIII
Use Second Round pick on Offensive Lineman
Use third round pick on BPA preferably offense

Granted this is kind of more what I would do but it gives you an idea of what our options are under both scenarios.

I personally also think your being rather generous with what it will cost to get RGIII. As if it won't cost 2-first round picks and possibly more like a 2nd this year and a 3rd next. Good luck picking up your OL in the 2nd round this year if you don't have one.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I personally also think your being rather generous with what it will cost to get RGIII. As if it won't cost 2-first round picks and possibly more like a 2nd this year and a 3rd next. Good luck picking up your OL in the 2nd round this year if you don't have one.

According to McShay and Kiper the price of the 2nd overall pick is likely to come down a bit after free agency when the Manning and Flynn sweepstakes end. And not only does St. Louis have to consider how far they'll be willing to drop but they'll also have to accept that Minnesota might be more flexible on price.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

According to McShay and Kiper the price of the 2nd overall pick is likely to come down a bit after free agency when the Manning and Flynn sweepstakes end. And not only does St. Louis have to consider how far they'll be willing to drop but they'll also have to accept that Minnesota might be more flexible on price.

It might, but it might not either. I could see the Rams thinking just like half the fans here.... how can we pass up on such a good talent and take him for themselves. How do we swindle them into making the trade? by offering enough picks that they can't refuse.

I could see the Browns thinking the same thing. There has been more talk of the Browns wanting RGIII at any cost. They have 2 first round picks.

Little talk of Seattle maybe wanting to jump everyone for RGIII.

I think we all know what the going rate is by the chart but I can also see the Rams turning this into an auction driving the price up.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by biffle

The problem with arguing this is that it feels like debating arguments built around conflicting points:
A) that we should sign Manning because of the surety of how it will improve us. while at the same time dismissing the cap space argument because there's nothing you can do on the FA market that can really help the team.
B) that we shouldn't draft a QB because the odds are so against finding a star in the draft, while at the same time acting as if whatever else we would do with the draft picks is a sure bet to succeed.


Anyway, I probably won't be around the board much the next few days, so thanks for the convo guys.

Um... I think the biggest problem I'm seeing is the "PM no way" crowd seem to think PM is going to cost like $30 mill of our $40-45 mill. He won't.

The other thing to think about is this team is not going out and picking up all the FA's and PM is going to command so much money that we won't be able to do that. I see the Skins maybe getting 1 FA QB no matter who it is or what they plan to do in the draft. So out of all the FA QB's whom would you rather have? Personally I'd rather have Flynn. Others would like to see Orton.
-Flynn is capable of starting, challenging the Rookie that is drafted and allows the team to play the best QB with a quality back up.
-Orton I see as slight step better then Grossman. Someone who should be a healthy back up to the Rookie.
-PM if healthy starts and makes the Rookie develope under him. I'm not sure he will be ready to start in Sept., maybe mid season, but this allows the team to possibly start your Rookie which I'd expect everyone to want.

The only concern I would worry about if I was against PM would be will he be healthy and take time away from said Rookie drafted? For those of you who don't think he will ever be healthy enough to play.... you all should be the ones argueing for PM cause this ensures your Rookie starts.

This team will have a Vet on it. Whether it's Grossman, Beck, Orton, or PM. Flynn might be out even though I'd like to see them get him only because he's some what young and definitly healthy and played well against a stout defense (Lions). So pick you poison.