Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

SS, based on what you know (and maybe you have already answered this), what do you think the percentages are for the following (i.e. 40% chance we get Manning; 40% RGIII; 10% Orton; 2% No Change):

PM and developmental 2nd tier QB;
PM and pass on developmental;
RGIII by trading;
RGIII 'cause he falls to us;
Orton and developmental
Other journeyman QB and developmental
Other

Not sure if you can even divide it that way, really just looking - based on your sources, your evaluation of them and of the situation - what you believe are the most likely scenarios are.

Oh man, that's really tough to answer. Let's see. I'll base it on pies. With 5 being very likely

PM and developmental 2nd tier QB: 3 Pies

PM and pass on developmental: 1 Pie

RGIII by trading: 2 Pies to #2/ 3 Pies to #3/ 4 Pies to #4

RGIII 'cause he falls to us: 1 Pie

Orton and developmental: 1 Pie

Other journeyman QB and developmental: 4.5 Pies (depends on what you see as journeyman, but this is what I most likely see happening)

Other: As in stay the course? 1 Pie

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Oh man, that's really tough to answer. Let's see. I'll base it on pies. With 5 being very likely

PM and developmental 2nd tier QB: 3 Pies

PM and pass on developmental: 1 Pie

RGIII by trading: 2 Pies to #2/ 3 Pies to #3/ 4 Pies to #4

RGIII 'cause he falls to us: 1 Pie

Orton and developmental: 1 Pie

Other journeyman QB and developmental: 4.5 Pies (depends on what you see as journeyman, but this is what I most likely see happening)

Other: As in stay the course? 1 Pie

Hmmm... So you are saying that they are now showing a greater interest in RG3. Not sure if that is good or bad...

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Oh man, that's really tough to answer. Let's see. I'll base it on pies. With 5 being very likely

PM and developmental 2nd tier QB: 3 Pies

PM and pass on developmental: 1 Pie

RGIII by trading: 2 Pies to #2/ 3 Pies to #3/ 4 Pies to #4

RGIII 'cause he falls to us: 1 Pie

Orton and developmental: 1 Pie

Other journeyman QB and developmental: 4.5 Pies (depends on what you see as journeyman, but this is what I most likely see happening)

Other: As in stay the course? 1 Pie

If MS does this and we have a losing season, then I would be fine with him being fired at the end of the season.

Also, what pies are you talking about here? Apple? Pecan? LOL.

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

If MS does this and we have a losing season, then I would be fine with him being fired at the end of the season.

Also, what pies are you talking about here? Apple? Pecan? LOL.

I would assume Boston Cream Pies aka the King of all pies.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

If MS does this and we have a losing season, then I would be fine with him being fired at the end of the season.

Also, what pies are you talking about here? Apple? Pecan? LOL.

Key Lime, Sweet Potato, and Apple

What if he trades up for RG3 and we have a losing season?

What if he gets Manning and Tannehill and we have a losing season?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Key Lime, Sweet Potato, and Apple

What if he trades up for RG3 and we have a losing season?

What if he gets Manning and Tannehill and we have a losing season?

Mmmmmm pie.

Anyway, good questions. To me a journeyman QB and a developmental QB are basically going in the same direction as we did last year in terms of that position. MS' willingness to go into the season with a question mark at QB to me is a bigger risk than PM or RG3. And regardless of how it happens, if he has a losing season with a journeyman QB, I just don't see how he keeps his job.

If we trade up to get RG3, I actually expect the possibility of having a losing season. However, I feel that making this move would be heading in the right direction, especially if the team shows improvements in the offense. I think this would warrant another year of MS to see how he is able to improve a rookie QB.

If we lose with Manning, my opinion would depend on how we lost. If we have a losing season because MS/KS would not adjust their gameplan to PM, then the Shanahans should be fired. If we have a losing season b/c someone overlooked something in regards to PM's health (i.e. we sign him when he is not healthy), then that would be unexcusable and someone should get fired over that.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Mmmmmm pie.

Anyway, good questions. To me a journeyman QB and a developmental QB are basically going in the same direction as we did last year in terms of that position. MS' willingness to go into the season with a question mark at QB to me is a bigger risk than PM or RG3. And regardless of how it happens, if he has a losing season with a journeyman QB, I just don't see how he keeps his job.

If we trade up to get RG3, I actually expect the possibility of having a losing season. However, I feel that making this move would be heading in the right direction, especially if the team shows improvements in the offense. I think this would warrant another year of MS to see how he is able to improve a rookie QB.

If we lose with Manning, my opinion would depend on how we lost. If we have a losing season because MS/KS would not adjust their gameplan to PM, then the Shanahans should be fired. If we have a losing season b/c someone overlooked something in regards to PM's health (i.e. we sign him when he is not healthy), then that would be unexcusable and someone should get fired over that.

Don't see who the "developmental" guy was last year. Crompton? He was just a late addition bargain pickup. I get your point, but if the developmental guy is drafted high, i.e. 1st or 2nd round, I think (& hope) there is still some room for patience, especially if they finish the season strong and/or the developmental qb gets some time & looks good late in year.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Don't see who the "developmental" guy was last year. Crompton? He was just a late addition bargain pickup. I get your point, but if the developmental guy is drafted high, i.e. 1st or 2nd round, I think (& hope) there is still some room for patience, especially if they finish the season strong and/or the developmental qb gets some time & looks good late in year.

I just don't want a mediocre journeyman to be our best option at QB. And you are right, there was no developmental QB last year, but still I don't want some mediocre QB to be our best option (and that's what happened last year). Also, I feel that MS needs to do something that makes sense and looks promising next season, because he wasted two years on a washed up McNabb and pinning his hopes on mediocre/backups at best QBs.

[SFREDSKIN]

Neither. I say if RGIII doesn't fall to 6th, then trade down, add more picks, draft DeCastro and then Tannehill in the 2nd round plus whatever other pick we get if a trade is possible.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

To me a journeyman QB and a developmental QB are basically going in the same direction as we did last year in terms of that position. MS' willingness to go into the season with a question mark at QB to me is a bigger risk than PM or RG3. And regardless of how it happens, if he has a losing season with a journeyman QB, I just don't see how he keeps his job.

I see last year different.
Imo going with Grossman was going with a known quantity and hoping or expecting to coach him up and make him play better then his career to date would indicate.

Imo when Rex was giving the nod over Beck in a close preseason battle it represented going with a veteran known quantity instead of Beck a journeymen/developmental QB.

In essence it was a win now move as opposed to a developmental move.
It was a continuation of avoiding developing a future QB that began with not drafting a the top QB, which I completely understand, but it also manifested itself in avoiding even drafting a late round fliers like TJ Yates or Tyrod Taylor.

If we trade up to get RG3, I actually expect the possibility of having a losing season. However, I feel that making this move would be heading in the right direction, especially if the team shows improvements in the offense. I think this would warrant another year of MS to see how he is able to improve a rookie QB.

I agree.
A rookie QB is imo the only situation where Mike can have below average QB play and not get called on the carpet.

I'm personally not against the usual suspect journeyman or second chance QB via FA/trade.
But, if they're not successful right away it won't be good for Mike Shanahan because of his failures at the QB position thus far.

[GTripp0012]

The most fascinating thing is that in 2011, the only unit on the team that exceeded it's relative expectations was the passing offense. The rushing offense, rush defense, pass defense, kick, and kick return games all performed below expectation.

So I mean, what do you address? The biggest need (passing offense) is the one that performed relatively well last year. Do you just throw all resources at that one problem and hope everything else just had a down year last year? Or do you spread the resources around and hope the pass offense takes another step forward without much of a talent influx?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The most fascinating thing is that in 2011, the only unit on the team that exceeded it's relative expectations was the passing offense. The rushing offense, rush defense, pass defense, kick, and kick return games all performed below expectation.

So I mean, what do you address? The biggest need (passing offense) is the one that performed relatively well last year. Do you just throw all resources at that one problem and hope everything else just had a down year last year? Or do you spread the resources around and hope the pass offense takes another step forward without much of a talent influx?

It depends on which metric, which aspect of the passing game and what your expectations were.

For me the passing game, but particularly the QB position, performed below expectations but were below league average.
Rex was one of the worst QBs in the league and averaged an offense killing/ season killing amount of turnovers.

To my eye the only units that exceeded expectations were the running game and the OL (if only because my expectations were very low).
The running game proved to be our best offensive weapon despite the playcaller's penchant for relying on the pass more then the run.
The OL on the whole was solid in pass protection to the point where it was viable to run a 5-step drop intensive offense.
And after the injuries hit it seemed the OL improved when young depth players were inserted into the line-up.

I think there are three areas that need to be addressed with best resources available: QB, OL: (RT that could possibly play LT, OG), Safety.

* I'm not against it for a potential 'franchise' QB.
But in general I'm against trading up as rule when it cost high draft mulitple high draft picks.
However when the compensation is reasonable i.e. like Denver moving up for Cutler or Ravens moving up for Flacco etc. I'm all for it.

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Key Lime, Sweet Potato, and Apple

What if he trades up for RG3 and we have a losing season?

What if he gets Manning and Tannehill and we have a losing season?

Thanks for asking my question should of continued to read the thread.:smashfrea

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Oh man, that's really tough to answer. Let's see. I'll base it on pies. With 5 being very likely

PM and developmental 2nd tier QB: 3 Pies

PM and pass on developmental: 1 Pie

RGIII by trading: 2 Pies to #2/ 3 Pies to #3/ 4 Pies to #4

RGIII 'cause he falls to us: 1 Pie

Orton and developmental: 1 Pie

Other journeyman QB and developmental: 4.5 Pies (depends on what you see as journeyman, but this is what I most likely see happening)

Other: As in stay the course? 1 Pie

But what kind of pie is it.