Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)

[30gut]

Despite being repeated shouted down, some people have posted their opinion that the Browns by the very nature of Holmgren's philosophy on QBs would not consider trading up.

I still believe that there's a very real chance that the FO and staff (not the media) believe that while Colt McCoy is not yet a 'franchise' QB that he could become. Hence the Browns voicing their desire to bring in competition as opposed to bringing in a replacement .
If the Browns wanted to replace McCoy they would have no need to hide it.
They're picking at 4; there is very little anyone can do to outbid them if they wanted a QB.

If I'm in the FO I don't bead around the bush.
I offer the Browns a trade down deal to guage their interest in Griffin and proceed from there.

BTW-I can't imagine the Browns FO considers Matt Flynn an upgrade from Colt McCoy. From a physical skillset perspective they're essentially the same QB.
Flynn may have slightly more velocity and McCoy is more athletic/playmaker.
I can't picture Holmgren falling for the same late rounnd QB pump and dump scheme that he practically created.

[CrackBack]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Despite being repeated shouted down, some people have posted their opinion that the Browns by the very nature of Holmgren's philosophy on QBs would not consider trading up.

I still believe that there's a very real chance that the FO and staff (not the media) believe that while Colt McCoy is not yet a 'franchise' QB that he could become. Hence the Browns voicing their desire to bring in competition as opposed to bringing in a replacement .
If the Browns wanted to replace McCoy they would have no need to hide it.
They're picking at 4; there is very little anyone can do to outbid them if they wanted a QB.

If I'm in the FO I don't bead around the bush.
I offer the Browns a trade down deal to guage their interest in Griffin and proceed from there.

BTW-I can't imagine the Browns FO considers Matt Flynn an upgrade from Colt McCoy. From a physical skillset perspective they're essentially the same QB.
Flynn may have slightly more velocity and McCoy is more athletic/playmaker.
I can't picture Holmgren falling for the same late rounnd QB pump and dump scheme that he practically created.

You almost contradict yourself in this.

First you say that the browns want someone to compete with Colt, not replace. Then you say that Flynn is too similar to Colt.

I think that is exactly what they are looking for - Someone that can come in, battle it out and then start the best QB with a solid backup.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by CrackBack

You almost contradict yourself in this.

First you say that the browns want someone to compete with Colt, not replace. Then you say that Flynn is too similar to Colt.

I think that is exactly what they are looking for - Someone that can come in, battle it out and then start the best QB with a solid backup.

What is almost contradict anyway?

You must be misunderstanding my post then, or I didn't explain my point very well.
Because there is no contradiction on my part.
Maybe its because you feel that Flynn is the type of QB the Browns are looking for you see my post as a contradiction to your opinion?

But here is a fuller version of my opinion on why Flynn doesn't seem like a logical option for the Browns:

Many people suggest that Flynn is an option for the Browns.
I was pointing out that reason why I don't think that make sense:

(a) Flynn is going to get starters compensation. You don't pay starting level compensation to someone who is only brought in to compete. In short you don't pay starting money to someone that might end up the back-up.

Originally Posted by Walrus

“"I think he can be, he could be[franchise QB],"..."I'm not ready to say that yet. You know what we did this season (4-12) and he played and he did some very fine things and he played young at times. ... Was I pleased? Yeah, in a lot of the stuff he did. My opinion of Colt has not changed. I think he has a lot of intangibles.

My opinion of Colt hasn’t changed,” said Holmgren. “He can be, could be [a franchise quarterback]. But I’m not ready to anoint Colt yet.”

“The game starts in the huddle with the play-call, being able to direct things, get guys lined up,” Shurmur said. “I saw him become more efficient on some of the basic progressions. I saw him make some better plays outside the pocket later in the year better than he did earlier in the year. Leadership, being able to get guys lined up properly.”...Ultimately, though, as with not only the quarterback position but every position, you're kind of judged on -- and the quarterback more than anybody -- on how well your team did. I'm not ready to anoint Colt yet. Have I changed my mind? No. Do I love him? Yes, I do.

I think it's hard to judge off this season because our offense by anyone's standards was not good enough,"..."Very few guys in my years in the league have come in and shot lights out," he said. "If you're in the process of being a young quarterback playing for a team still building -- particularly on offense -- it's doubly hard. So, yeah, usually it's like this."

"As long as the athlete has what it takes inside – the work ethic, all those things, the measureables -- you have a chance to be good," said Holmgren. "Then you have to be lucky with injury and all that stuff. But it's hard to talk about how good a player can be."

Originally Posted by Shurmur

There's going to be some competition and I expect that Colt will improve just like I expect Seneca [Wallace] will improve and whoever the quarterbacks are here," said coach Pat Shurmur in his exit press conference Tuesday. "The best quarterback will play when we start the season."

"As we go forward here with Colt, he's done some really good things," said Shurmur. "[We'll] get him back healthy, and get him in an off-season where he has a chance to develop. It's critical that he gets better. He'd tell you the same thing. We'll move forward with that in mind and we'll do what we have to do to put the best quarterback on the field for our franchise."

He made it clear he's not ruling out McCoy as "the guy" for the Browns.

"I'm not admitting anything yet because I want to see these guys develop," said Shurmur. "If you produce well enough, you become elite. If you don't, then you may end up being average, and then if you don't then, you move on. I'm expecting the quarterbacks that are here to develop through the off-season and we're going to play the best one."

(b) McCoy and Flynn have very similar physical skillset.
Why would any team go after the same type of QB they already have?

(c) During Holmgren's career he has drafted and traded many late round QBs like Flynn for draft picks. I doubt Holmgren values or perceives Flynn the way most fans or other teams perceive Flynn.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 30gut

What is almost contradict anyway?

You must be misunderstanding my post then, or I didn't explain my point very well.
Because there is no contradiction on my part.
Maybe its because you feel that Flynn is the type of QB the Browns are looking for you see my post as a contradiction to your opinion?

But here is a fuller version of my opinion on why Flynn doesn't seem like a logical option for the Browns:

Many people suggest that Flynn is an option for the Browns.
I was pointing out that reason why I don't think that make sense:

(a) Flynn is going to get starters compensation. You don't pay starting level compensation to someone who is only brought in to compete. In short you don't pay starting money to someone that might end up the back-up.










(b) McCoy and Flynn have very similar physical skillset.
Why would any team go after the same type of QB they already have?

(c) During Holmgren's career he has drafted and traded many late round QBs like Flynn for draft picks. I doubt Holmgren values or perceives Flynn the way most fans or other teams perceive Flynn.

I agree with but "C" is what I wanted to reference, I still think your kinda right but if said QB has developed well into a really good QB after he left Holmgren I would think would realize that and might want him. Otherwise I agree with you. Their not going to pay 2 QBs starting money and sit one.

Plus I think with the Browns owner being infatuated with RGIII I think they make the trade and still have a 1st rounder to pick up a RB that they need bad. If the Rams are still simply wanting a one first and one second this year, a first and third next year.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree with but "C" is what I wanted to reference, I still think your kinda right but if said QB has developed well into a really good QB after he left Holmgren I would think would realize that and might want him. Otherwise I agree with you. Their not going to pay 2 QBs starting money and sit one.

Plus I think with the Browns owner being infatuated with RGIII I think they make the trade and still have a 1st rounder to pick up a RB that they need bad. If the Rams are still simply wanting a one first and one second this year, a first and third next year.

Lerner isn't like that. He lets his football people do all of the work, he doesnt meddle. Plus if they make the trade up with the Rams, how would they still have a first to draft a RB? All of the reports have been saying that the price starts with two firsts and from Cleveland both picks from this year.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lerner isn't like that. He lets his football people do all of the work, he doesnt meddle. Plus if they make the trade up with the Rams, how would they still have a first to draft a RB? All of the reports have been saying that the price starts with two firsts and from Cleveland both picks from this year.

Well I suppose, technically, Cleveland could keep that pick and offer a couple of extra future picks in place of that one, but all in all, I'm really doubting the Browns do make that trade up.

My only thing with all this is, if the Redskins don't get Manning (which is probably the likely scenario at this point) and get beat out by the Browns in moving up to #2, then drafting Ryan Tannehill looks more like a consolation prize. I feel OK drafting RT if the 'skins were landing Manning, just because I believe Tannehill is gonna need a year or two before he's truly ready. I'm not sure if I could stomach Orton or another Grossman year.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lerner isn't like that. He lets his football people do all of the work, he doesnt meddle. Plus if they make the trade up with the Rams, how would they still have a first to draft a RB? All of the reports have been saying that the price starts with two firsts and from Cleveland both picks from this year.

Hopefully the Browns will value Richardson a bit more than they value RG3 (I know that sounds a bit crazy).

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Hopefully the Browns will value Richardson a bit more than they value RG3 (I know that sounds a bit crazy).

Not totally crazy. Richardson is a very safe pick (what you want high in the draft), the best player at his position (what you want high in the draft), and fills a need. In terms of BPA, I could see them valuing Richardson more than Griffin.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lerner isn't like that. He lets his football people do all of the work, he doesnt meddle. Plus if they make the trade up with the Rams, how would they still have a first to draft a RB? All of the reports have been saying that the price starts with two firsts and from Cleveland both picks from this year.

OK, if I'm not mistaken we don't have 2 first round picks. The Skins offered (I thought):

2012- 1st, 3rd
2013- 1st, 4th

The Rams want our 2nd round pick to go with the other 2012 picks. The Skins said no thank you because they want to keep the 2nd round pick.

I'm not sure what was asked of the Browns but they balked also. I presumed they made a similar offer and possibly the Rams wanted their 2nd rounder also or their second 1st rounder added to the offer and the Browns said no.

All I'm saying is the Browns could beat our offer by simply offering their first of two first round picks, offer their 2nd round pick, and their 3rd round pick, along with next yrs 1st and 4th. They get RGIII and still have their second first round pick to get a RB which they desperatly need.

Unless I'm mistaken (yet again) and the Browns don't have 2 first round picks?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 30gut

If I'm in the FO I don't bead around the bush.
I offer the Browns a trade down deal to guage their interest in Griffin and proceed from there.

@MaryKayCabot #Browns GM Heckert said there's a chance team will trade down from their No. 4 overall pick to get extra picks again.