Trayvon Martin Case

[Dirtbag59]

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

First, I think most of what you've said incredibly reasonable.

As for the bolded part, just don't know whether we can say with any certainty that Zimmerman "wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete." Even the prosecutor's medical expert, who testified on direct that the lacerations were consistent with a single strike against the concrete, admitted on cross exam that they could have resulted from multiple strikes against concrete and that Martin could have punched Zimmerman multiple times.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

Agree 100%.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Agree 100%.

no where near being a riot you guys are so ill informed about what caused the LA riots. It was the fact [people were tired of the long history of he LA PD and that was the last straw. riots don;t happen off of isolated incidents. Frustration has to build up over time. But that won't fit into Rush Limbaugh narrative, not as entertaining. He is gonna do some time not sure how much though. His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

Check out the homoerotic imagination on G84C!

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

no where near being a riot you guys are so ill informed about what caused the LA riots. It was the fact [people were tired of the long history of he LA PD and that was the last straw. riots don;t happen off of isolated incidents. Frustration has to build up over time. But that won't fit into Rush Limbaugh narrative, not as entertaining. He is gonna do some time not sure how much though. His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

Whats your narrative based on?

I don't think anyone expects a full blown riot like we experienced in LA 20 years back. But unfortunately most of us are without a JoeRedskins to inform them with the realities of the case. So i think its reasonable to believe that their may be some civil disobedience, because at the end of the day there are many people who also let their ignorance of facts guide their decision making.

If Zimmerman gets acquitted I think it would be completely reasonable to expect a few flash mobs (non-Glee style). I think you could see something slightly worse if he gets off because of a Stand Your Ground immunity verdict by the judge. The worst case scenario, id imagine, is if you were to have a white or a white Hispanic person shoot and kill a black teen while defending themselves against a flash mob or mini-riot.

Either way im sure Sanford and FL are ready for it.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

If Zimmerman gets acquitted I think it would be completely reasonable to expect a few flash mobs (non-Glee style).

If we don't get an updated version of the Jets and Sharks a la West Side Story I'll be very upset. Lots of finger snaps and some magnificent glaring.

"Be cooooool!"

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Whats your narrative based on?

I don't think anyone expects a full blown riot like we experienced in LA 20 years back. But unfortunately most of us are without a JoeRedskins to inform them with the realities of the case. So i think its reasonable to believe that their may be some civil disobedience, because at the end of the day there are many people who also let their ignorance of facts guide their decision making.

If Zimmerman gets acquitted I think it would be completely reasonable to expect a few flash mobs (non-Glee style). I think you could see something slightly worse if he gets off because of a Stand Your Ground immunity verdict by the judge. The worst case scenario, id imagine, is if you were to have a white or a white Hispanic person shoot and kill a black teen while defending themselves against a flash mob or mini-riot.

Either way im sure Sanford and FL are ready for it.

You expect a riot, that is your expectation. I just do not agree. Why would ther be a riot? Jumping the shark. SMDH.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

no where near being a riot you guys are so ill informed about what caused the LA riots. It was the fact [people were tired of the long history of he LA PD and that was the last straw. riots don;t happen off of isolated incidents. Frustration has to build up over time. But that won't fit into Rush Limbaugh narrative, not as entertaining. He is gonna do some time not sure how much though. His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

You're such an arrogant ass. How do you know what I know about the LA riots? Neither mlmpetert or I said there would be riots, we said that we hope there won't be any.

If you don't think the Sanford, FL African-American population does not have pent up grievances with the local police, you are the incredibly misinformed individual.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

How do we know that?

[firstdown]

They say all of this was caused by one blow to the back of the head. Then we have the pic of his face which shows he suffered a broken nose.

[JoeRedskin]

Wow. Marvelling at the prosecution's fumbling attempts to discredit certain statements.

Defense has recalled two of the detectives who interviewed Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin. Apparentlly, when Martin heard the tapes with the screaming while being interviewed by the Detectives, Tracy gave some indication that it wasn't Trayvon. The defense is attempting to get Tracy's hearsay statements into evidence (obviously, they aren't going to call Tracy as a defense witness - no way he admits that is what was he meant (see prosecutor's final questions below)).

First detective is not allowed to say what Tracy said and is dismissed.

Second detective (Serino) says, based on Tracy's response when he interviewed Tracy and played the tape, Serino was believed that Tracy didn't think the screaming was Trayvon. Serino's statement:
[Serino] describes Tracy Martin's response: "I let him listen first before I asked anything. I believe my words were, ‘Is that your son’s voice in the background’ or I think I said it a little differently than that," said Serino. He describes Tracy Martin's response: "It was more of a verbal and non-verbal. He looked away and under his breath, as I interpreted it, said, ‘No.’"

I think, but am not sure, the hearsay statement was allowed because the judge considered it a statement of "present sense impression" by Martin that affected Serino's continuing investigation rather than a simple statement such as was probably made to the first detective. I don't think it should have come in, but I can see many a judge ruling in the same fashion.

It's bad evidence for prosecutor. Rather than rolling with it and moving on, prosecutor really highlights Tracy's denial:

"You stated it was under his breath," said de la Rionda.

"Yes, sir," said Serino.

"You interpreted it as he said, 'No,'" said de la Rionda.

"Yes sir," said Serino.

"You didn't flat out hear the word 'no' unequivocally?" asked de la Rionda.

"I heard it and saw the movement of his mouth," said Serino.

"Your opinion is he said, 'No,'" said de la Rionda.

"Yes sir," said Serino.

Serino agrees with de la Rionda that saying, "No," could be seen as denial when being told or hearing that a loved one is dead. De la Rionda has concluded his cross-examination.

Zimmerman’s friends on 911 call: 'It's George' | HLNtv.com

I mean, you (1) reemphasized the bad evidence and (2) let the detective give an even stronger statement that Tracy denied it was Trayvon's voice. Sure, you get the tag at the end "well, he may have been saying blah blah", but the jury has now heard Serino TWICE testify that Trayvon's own father said it wasn't Trayvon on the tapes.

Leave it, move on. It's a losing point regardless. No one knows who was screaming on the tape with any degree of certainty and Tracy CLEARLY did not say it WAS Trayvon or you would have called him prosecution.

Point Zimmerman.

[saden1]

I am confused why this tape and who heard whose voice matters given the fact that Zimmerman himself said the voice wasnt his voice. I would think Zimmerman's perception matters more than the grieving parents of Martin or Zimmerman's mother.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

I am confused why this tape and who heard whose voice matters given the fact that Zimmerman himself said the voice wasnt his voice. I would think Zimmerman's perception matters more than the grieving parents of Martin or Zimmerman's mother.

Originally Posted by saden1

You guys disgust me. I'm done talking about this case.

Oh, you came back. Shame.....

[saden1]

There is no shame in enlightenment, there is in ignorance and malice.

I am taking bets on zimmerman getting convicted of at least manslaughter...you in?