Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?

[Shadowbyte]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think fans' petty grudge toward DM is far more pathetic than his grudge about the Shanahans.

My thoughts exactly. I still don't understand why people get so emotional over athletes. DM5 seems to extract an inordinate amount of seething hatred for no justifiable reason.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think fans' petty grudge toward DM is far more pathetic than his grudge about the Shanahans. It was handled poorly on both ends but ultimately the HEAD COACH is given the title of HEAD COACH for a reason.

The best way to move past Mike's mistakes, which are mostly a product of his ego, is to start winning. That said if the offensive scheme doesn't "click" with RGIII at the helm and we continue to see, say, McNabb type of results there will be, and deservedly so, signficant criticism of this little family adventure the Skins are on.

I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.

Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?

For some reason this a truth that most media and fans don't recognize: although Mike and Kyle are running the same offense they are decidedly different playcallers.

Thankfully, Griffin fits either style.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?

Nah, no worries, was just replying in general. Yes, it was their bad but two years later they aren't still talking about it. He is. If he had responded with something more neutral and said its up to them to maximize his talents but he's got all of the tools and Shanny has had success in the past it would have been all good. Since he went off on a half cocked rip job, he got the brunt of Redskins Nation which mostly had forgotten about him.

[Meks]

u should hear how people around here, his own fans... completely LIE to themselves and slam him as if he wasnt pretty good for them for 10 effin yeasrs.. smh most philly fans are a disgrace..

i never liked McNabb, never wanted him here, and as a die hard 21 year fan of the skins.... thats my fan given right... and hopefully thats not the 'petty grudge' u speak of.

[SolidSnake84]

I'd be lying if I didn't say that McNabb played well while he was in Philly.

HOWEVER, I really believe that he was basically a product of Andy Reid's QB friendly offense. Reid has made average guys look like super stars. Koy Detmer, A.J. Feely, Kevin Kolb all played very well in Reid's systems and looked like stars at times while filling in for the oft-injured McNabb.

Jeff Garcia was a star in his own right, as was Michael Vick.

But landing in Washington proved what McNabb was, IMO. An average QB who once his body gave out, could no longer be counted on to make plays and lead the offense. He had like one good game in Minnesota and even then he only threw for like one TD. McNabb was simply washed up when he arrived in washington, and totally shot when he was shipped to Minnesota. No other way to put it...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'd be lying if I didn't say that McNabb played well while he was in Philly.

HOWEVER, I really believe that he was basically a product of Andy Reid's QB friendly offense. Reid has made average guys look like super stars. Koy Detmer, A.J. Feely, Kevin Kolb all played very well in Reid's systems and looked like stars at times while filling in for the oft-injured McNabb.

Jeff Garcia was a star in his own right, as was Michael Vick.

But landing in Washington proved what McNabb was, IMO. An average QB who once his body gave out, could no longer be counted on to make plays and lead the offense. He had like one good game in Minnesota and even then he only threw for like one TD. McNabb was simply washed up when he arrived in washington, and totally shot when he was shipped to Minnesota. No other way to put it...

Well said...all around. McNabb was basically average, sometimes a little above and other times a little below, when many of us were hoping for something special.

[SmootSmack]

I hold no grudge against McNabb, just think he's sadly mistaken

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I hold no grudge against McNabb, just think he's sadly mistaken

Well said, ditto for me.

It would be nice if the guy could own up to some of his own mistakes and shortcomings once in a while rather than always pointing the finger.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I hold no grudge against McNabb, just think he's sadly mistaken

Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

Nope. Never. Not at all. By the way, I also heard that RGIII declined a private workout with the Colts!!

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by mooby

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by The Goat

No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.

Your whole argument is that Mike doesn't use his qb's to their strengths. I'm simply saying that past history indicates he does. If your problem lies with Kyle and his control of the offense, than you need to say so.

Personally, I believe Griffin, and even Luck, show the qualities that both Mike and Kyle look for in a quarterback, and they'd be hard pressed to come up with ways that would make Griffin fail. From what I can gather you seem to think that because we've failed with three has-beens at qb that means there's a 50/50 chance we're going to fail with a prospect who does everything we look for in a quarterback, and is also supremely gifted and to top it off, young, malleable, and willing to learn. Aka the perfect combination.

In the end, if Mike and Kyle fail to make this kid into the greatest quarterback DC has seen since Sonny J, by all means you can pull a CultBrennan and gloat about being right until we all tune you out. But I have more faith that the opposite will happen, and so do a lot of people that know a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do.