Trayvon Martin Case

[12thMan]

Joe, it doesn't matter who initiated the physical altercation. Trayvon Martin was being pursued by an unidentified adult male armed with a 9mm. He was on the phone with his girlfriend who told him to "run". By your logic, if Martin threw the first punch that negates self-defense. Bogus.

What was he supposed to do, drop his Skittles and put his hands in the air?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Joe, it doesn't matter who initiated the physical altercation. Trayvon Martin was being pursued by an unidentified adult male armed with a 9mm. He was on the phone with his girlfriend who told him to "run". By your logic, if Martin threw the first punch that negates self-defense. Bogus.

What was he supposed to do, drop his Skittles and put his hands in the air?

If I see you on the street and start to run after you, are you allowed to punch me when I get close enough to you?

Did he tell his girl friend the guy had a gun? Honestly, I was not aware of that. I would agree that changes things if the gun came into play before the fight. About to leave work, but I'll think about that. If Zimmerman was chasing Martin brandishing or obviously showing the gun, that is a different story altogether.

Let me ask you, if the events transpired as Zimmerman said. He was walking away, an unprovoked Martin assaulted him, broke his nose and bashed Zimmerman's head into the cement, did Zimmerman have the right to use deadly force?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If I see you on the street and start to run after you, are you allowed to punch me when I get close enough to you?

Did he tell his girl friend the guy had a gun? Honestly, I was not aware of that. I would agree that changes things if the gun came into play before the fight. About to leave work, but I'll think about that. If Zimmerman was chasing Martin brandishing or obviously showing the gun, that is a different story altogether.

Let me ask you, if the events transpired as Zimmerman said. He was walking away, an unprovoked Martin assaulted him, broke his nose and bashed Zimmerman's head into the cement, did Zimmerman have the right to use deadly force?

Your example isn't a good one. Zimmerman followed Martin in a vehicle, got out against the orders of the 911 operator, and approached Trayvon Martin. His actions precipitated the ensuing the events. Had Zimmerman been an officer of the law, properly identified himself, then that's a different story. But he made up his made that Trayvon Martin was up to something and decided to take matters into his own hands. That much is very clear from the 911 audio.

Where we disagree is this, you're assuming because George Zimmerman suffered in a physical altercation, he's justified in pulling out his weapon. That is not stand your ground, sir. Even if George Zimmerman got his ass beat, which he didn't, that doesn't give him the legal grounds to pull his firearm and shoot an innocent teen in cold blood.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Your example isn't a good one. Zimmerman followed Martin in a vehicle, got out against the orders of the 911 operator, and approached Trayvon Martin. His actions precipitated the ensuing the events. Had Zimmerman been an officer of the law, properly identified himself, then that's a different story. But he made up his made that Trayvon Martin was up to something and decided to take matters into his own hands. That much is very clear from the 911 audio.

Where we disagree is this, you're assuming because George Zimmerman suffered in a physical altercation, he's justified in pulling out his weapon. That is not stand your ground, sir. Even if George Zimmerman got his ass beat, which he didn't, that doesn't give him the legal grounds to pull his firearm and shoot an innocent teen in cold blood.

Okay. I do see your point and I do need to rethink some of the assumptions I have been making because you and saden have convinced me I have got some of my facts wrong. I promise to do so and be back with my thoughts. Just walked in door, though, and must now wrestle with small children.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Your example isn't a good one. Zimmerman followed Martin in a vehicle, got out against the orders of the 911 operator, and approached Trayvon Martin. His actions precipitated the ensuing the events. Had Zimmerman been an officer of the law, properly identified himself, then that's a different story. But he made up his made that Trayvon Martin was up to something and decided to take matters into his own hands. That much is very clear from the 911 audio.

Where we disagree is this, you're assuming because George Zimmerman suffered in a physical altercation, he's justified in pulling out his weapon. That is not stand your ground, sir. Even if George Zimmerman got his ass beat, which he didn't, that doesn't give him the legal grounds to pull his firearm and shoot an innocent teen in cold blood.

You facts are not correct. Zimmerman was out of his car following Trayvon when the 911 operator asked if he was following him and said he did not have to do that. After that its not clear what happened.

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

The coversation then turned to where he would meet the cops when they arrived. To me that tells me Zimmerman was returning to his car to meet the cops but who knows.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You facts are not correct. Zimmerman was out of his car following Trayvon when the 911 operator asked if he was following him and said he did not have to do that. After that its not clear what happened.

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

The coversation then turned to where he would meet the cops when they arrived. To me that tells me Zimmerman was returning to his car to meet the cops but who knows.

Firstdown, the altercation took place between two rows of homes on each side, possibly on grass, not at his vehicle. The crime scene, where they taped off, was no where near Zimmerman's vehicle.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Firstdown, the altercation took place between two rows of homes on each side, possibly on grass, not at his vehicle. The crime scene, where they taped off, was no where near Zimmerman's vehicle.

They seem to believe that the 911 call validates Zimmerman's claims despite the 1 min gap in events, his trailing of the boy and claim of "they always get away," his aggressive history and blatant profiling. Unbelievable.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Firstdown, the altercation took place between two rows of homes on each side, possibly on grass, not at his vehicle. The crime scene, where they taped off, was no where near Zimmerman's vehicle.

The area I remembered was right by the road and side walk.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The area I remembered was right by the road and side walk.

the area you remembered from what? i'm guessing a picture from the media? we already know how misleading those can be.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Firstdown, the altercation took place between two rows of homes on each side, possibly on grass, not at his vehicle. The crime scene, where they taped off, was no where near Zimmerman's vehicle.

Well what I just saw on the news the night of the shooting crime scene taped off was right by the road and had a truck right there. I don't know if it was Zimmermans truck but it was clearly by a road with a truck parked on the side of the road.