Make your Case for non-HOFer

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

You are forgetting the LONG list of guys who haven't made the HOF but are eligible now. As a Steeler fan let's just look at Bettis. You can also look at Monk as an example. There is a back log of greats waiting their turn to get into Canton, so your Hall of Very Good just doesn't cut it.

No, I'm not forgetting anyone. I know that. But I also recognize that these guys will be put on that list one day, and these will be the guys getting in at the end of their eligibility, just like Monk did. It is the Hall of the very good, no ifs ands or butts about it.

If Bettis gets in, that just proves its the hall of the very good. Over his career, the guy had 3.9 yards per carry....that's atrocious. He averaged 7 tds/year...doing better at the end of his career. He didn't ever catch the ball, and he wasn' good with ball security.

What's his claim to fame? He was fat, played forever, and was given the ball alot. Didn't do a whole lot of good when he got it though.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by skinster

No, I'm not forgetting anyone. I know that. But I also recognize that these guys will be put on that list one day, and these will be the guys getting in at the end of their eligibility, just like Monk did. It is the Hall of the very good, no ifs ands or butts about it.

If Bettis gets in, that just proves its the hall of the very good. Over his career, the guy had 3.9 yards per carry....that's atrocious. He averaged 7 tds/year...doing better at the end of his career. He didn't ever catch the ball, and he wasn' good with ball security.

What's his claim to fame? He was fat, played forever, and was given the ball alot. Didn't do a whole lot of good when he got it though.

And he is something like the 5th or 7th ALL TIME leading rusher in the NFL.

fyi - insulting Bettis to a Steeler fan is saying Monk should have never made the HOF to a Redskin fan. (before I get jumped on, Monk should have been a first ballot guy).

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

And he is something like the 5th or 7th ALL TIME leading rusher in the NFL.

fyi - insulting Bettis to a Steeler fan is saying Monk should have never made the HOF to a Redskin fan. (before I get jumped on, Monk should have been a first ballot guy).

I can't speak to what era Monk played in, so I don't have much to compare him to. But if you look at his production, he has a career high of 8 tds and only five 1,0000 yd seasons. Doesn't look "great" to me, unless that was somehow good for WRs in his day.

Really the argument that seems to be going on here is cumulative career numbers vs impact of season by season. I'm of the camp that a player that plays at an elite level for around 7 years or so should be considered to the HOF. I don't believe that a player playing longer and thus upping his numbers should improve his status in the HOF at all. Bettis might be 6th on the all time rushing list (although he is 18th on yds from scrimmage), but he didn't have more than 4 good seasons in his entire career...and only 3 of them were with the steelers.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by skinster

I can't speak to what era Monk played in, so I don't have much to compare him to. But if you look at his production, he has a career high of 8 tds and only five 1,0000 yd seasons. Doesn't look "great" to me, unless that was somehow good for WRs in his day.

Really the argument that seems to be going on here is cumulative career numbers vs impact of season by season. I'm of the camp that a player that plays at an elite level for around 7 years or so should be considered to the HOF. I don't believe that a player playing longer and thus upping his numbers should improve his status in the HOF at all. Bettis might be 6th on the all time rushing list (although he is 18th on yds from scrimmage), but he didn't have more than 4 good seasons in his entire career...and only 3 of them were with the steelers.

And Monk was the all time leading receiver upon his retirement.

Yes, the HOF is a look at your body of work, not just a portion of it.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

And Monk was the all time leading receiver upon his retirement.

Yes, the HOF is a look at your body of work, not just a portion of it.

so if I'm a WR who plays for 20 seasons and gets 800 yards every year, I deserve to be in the HOF?

I know that is how the hall works. I just don't think that makes a player great. Thats why I call it the Hall of the very good.

The backlog is there because very good players keep getting inducted, and very good players are on the backlog.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

so if I'm a WR who plays for 20 seasons and gets 800 yards every year, I deserve to be in the HOF?

I know that is how the hall works. I just don't think that makes a player great. Thats why I call it the Hall of the very good.

The backlog is there because very good players keep getting inducted, and very good players are on the backlog.

The Hall represents a pretty small % of players, 267 are in the Hall now. When you consider how many players have come and gone, not sure how you can say these guys were just very good.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The Hall represents a pretty small % of players, 267 are in the Hall now. When you consider how many players have come and gone, not sure how you can say these guys were just very good.

Yea, what he said.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The Hall represents a pretty small % of players, 267 are in the Hall now. When you consider how many players have come and gone, not sure how you can say these guys were just very good.

I guess the issue is the standards we are talking about. I could list an incredible amount of players that I feel weren't "great" that made it. Maybe in your mind they were. There are even some players that are an absolute joke that made it.

Floyd Little, Lynn Swann, Marcus Allen, John Stallworth, and Bob Hayes at a glance.

Floyd Little-Inducted 2010, Played 9 seasons. Averaged 702 yards a season at 3.9 yards per carry and 4.7 touchdowns per season.
This guy getting inducted 2 years ago isn't a backlog of great players. Its a backlog of good players somehow bumping out better players.

All the players that should be in, but aren't will inevitably get in. They will just have to wait their turn as the backlog pushes them back.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinster

so if I'm a WR who plays for 20 seasons and gets 800 yards every year, I deserve to be in the HOF?

I know that is how the hall works. I just don't think that makes a player great. Thats why I call it the Hall of the very good.

The backlog is there because very good players keep getting inducted, and very good players are on the backlog.

What da ****??

You have any idea how hard it is to even make the NFL?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What da ****??

You have any idea how hard it is to even make the NFL?

LOL.

#ThingsyouneverexpectSStosay.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What da ****??

You have any idea how hard it is to even make the NFL?

I fully appreciate just how hard it is to make it onto a COLLEGE team. Making it in the NFL is no small feat. They are all great players relative to the world. But greatness IN the NFL isn't judged by how good a player is relative to the world; its how good he is relative to the rest of the NFL.

When I say a player is very good, not great; I am not trying to insinuate he is not incredible at football; every player in the NFL is incredible. I'm saying that greatness is being elite among all the amazing players in the NFL.