2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I never thought I would say this.....but I actually feel a bit bad for Obama and the way the media wings of the DNC (msnbc, etc.) are ready to throw him under the bus. You could see it everywhere last night and this AM. They're setting up to dump an election loss squarely on him and trash the guy because he can't defend the last 3 1/2 years (I say policies, others will say bad situation, folks in the middle would say both),his far left ideology (yes I know that's a debatable point), and he can't live up to the diety-like aspirations the clowns (yes, Chris Matthews I mean you) in the left wing media put on him.

These two-faced, opportunistic, back-stabbers have carried the water and covered for Obama since 2007. Now they're ready to throw him to the wolves and cover their own hind-quarters....and this is before any real polls have come out suggesting a drastic shift in nationwide polls. Shameful. But, Obama has taken advantage of these useful idiots all this time also. Moral of the story, be careful who you make your bed with.

They are going wild but lets be honest here, they are going after him because he wasnt aggressive enough. This is somethingthat can easily mitigated. Team Obama is a pretty smart bunch and these barking dogs will change thier and sing his praises like bird of paradise.

This is a rope-a-dope, and Romney is the dope.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Being fiery doesn't win elections, making the voters feel you care about them and their lives does. Obama left one too many unused trump-cards at the table though I think Obama did a good job explaining his policies and positions vs Romney's.

There are 3 more quarters left in the game and the deck is still hot.

Yea, the same old policies he said he was going to do in his first term.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

President Obama was off last night. No other way to put it. Romney won, Obama lost.

Two more debates to go and a jobs report tomorrow.

Most are predicting the DOL's jobs report to be modest in the 115k range. Although this sounds interesting and also very resonable:

TrimTabs Says U.S. Economy Adds 210,000 Jobs in September - TrimTabs Money Blog

Anything over 150k will probably be very good for Obama.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Most are predicting the DOL's jobs report to be modest in the 115k range. Although this sounds interesting and also very resonable:

TrimTabs Says U.S. Economy Adds 210,000 Jobs in September - TrimTabs Money Blog

Anything over 150k will probably be very good for Obama.

Unless it's over 200k, which I highly doubt, it won't matter much one way or the other. Already baked into the numbers.

[hooskins]

Obama came off almost like John Kerry. A bit too wordy and long winded.

He needs to keep stuff short and sweet. Don't be defensive be offensive. Also call Mittens out on being inconsistent and changing his policies. Repeat 47%, I like firing and etch a sketch numerous times.

[FRPLG]

I too thought Romney "won" but to me if I were a Democrat I'd be more concerned about how over-the-top the commentary was on how bad Obama did. I mean certainly neither guy last night convinced someone to change their vote. Perhaps Romney attracted a few undecideds but he can easily lose those in the coming debates too. But the consistent hand-wringing only magnifies Obama's performance which should just be left as basically irrelevant.

[Chico23231]

Obama was in prevent defense all night. Mitt kept marching down the field.

When I saw the Ragin Cagin James Carvelle speak last spring, he already said the Dem werent taking the election then serious enough and his fear was the attitude could drag into november. Well if last night wasnt a wake up call...

[Daseal]

I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

Actually I think the moderator did a great job. He let them debate and he did not become part of the dabate. I've seen to many debates where the moderator actually becomes part of the debate and that's not their job. Some say he let them go over their time but how do you just cut someone off in the middle of statement. Obama did have 4min more time but that's not bad when your talking about a 90 min debate. Some on the left are blaming the moderator for OBama's poor performance which is BS.

All Ryan need to do is shut up and let Biden do all the talking. He will hang himself.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

I heard a little over half of the debate, the first half of which was on radio in a car, but i thought it was the best moderater i have ever heard. I didnt realize there was only one moderater at first and i thought the debate was a little out of control then i started to realize what was going on. It wasnt a Meet the Press talking points style Q&A. Rather it was an actual debate.

From a person that really gets under my skin, but cant help but completely agree with on Lehrer:

“He made the moderator not a factor in the debate. He left the debate up to the debaters. If Mitt Romney was going to have a really tough question put to him, President Obama was going to have to do it. And the same thing the other way around.

“I think Jim Lehrer made a great choice, all the way through," O'Donnell added. "Staying out of it as much as he did was the thing to do. I think we’ve had way too much grandstanding by debate moderators, way too much prosecuting by debate moderators. Let the debaters do it. If you find yourself bored or somehow disappointed in the debate, it’s the debaters fault.”

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell: 'I liked the job Jim Lehrer did' - POLITICO.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

I'm sure after watching registrations being poached by conservative seniors' groups, AARP is heading for the hills after being a major advocate for ObamaCare. Best to hedge their bets if Obama gets his clock cleaned again in the next two debates, Romney wins, and I see some "Capital Gains" of my own .

AARP objects to Obama invoking group's support during debate | Fox News

[JoeRedskin]

Watched the whole thing. I lean towards Romney but am not enamored of him for a lot of reasons. Personally, I find Obama unappealling and dislike his administration, Holder in particular. What they do with the law and the manner in which they treat the Constitution disturbs me (Not that I was of fan of GWB's selective use of the Constitution either). With that said, I voted for Obama last time. First democrat for whom I have ever voted.

With that said, nothing that happened last night struck me as game changing. Sure, Romney came out well but nothing that's going to change anything. I don't even think they framed the stark, underlying philosophical differences between them very well (i.e. - what is the role of gov?; How do you balance the interests/rights of the individual against the interests/rights of the group? What rights do those in the minority have to frustrate the will of the majority?). They touched upon the edges and Romney probably strengthened his base. As others have said, maybe a few undecided went to Romney, but I can't imagine any Obama supporter switching b/c of last night.

At the same time, there was practically nothing on social issues and, for all his "reach across the aisle" talk, Romney's "all the people" talk goes by the wayside on these issues. Sorry, I know too many people who would vote for Hitler if he supported their positions (whichever side it might be) on gay marriage and abortion. To my mind, Romney is on the losing side of these issues in terms of votes (i.e. regardless of how you feel as to the right and wrong of the underlying issue, more voters support Obama on these issues). On the economics, Romney just doesn't have the logical/rational imperative (i.e. his method is so clearly right that no reasonable person would disagree with it and Obama's is so clearly wrong no reasonable person would agree with it) to overcome the weight of the votes against him on the social issues.

Ultimately, I foresee myself casting a protest vote for the Libertarians this year. (I am a citizen of the Democratic Party sub-committee known as the State of Maryland so it really doesn't matter for whom I vote. The electoral votes are already in the bank).

Blech to it all.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Sorry, I know too many people who would vote for Hitler if he supported their positions (whichever side it might be) on gay marriage and abortion. To my mind, Romney is on the losing side of these issues in terms of votes (i.e. regardless of how you feel as to the right and wrong of the underlying issue, more voters support Obama on these issues)

I know you live in the People's Republic of MD and don't get out much....but I would refer you to these polls that show on abortion and gay marriage a majority do not support those positions:

Abortion

Same-Sex Marriage: Polls, Votes and Courts | RealClearPolitics

Ultimately, I foresee myself casting a protest vote for the Libertarians this year. (I am a citizen of the Democratic Party sub-committee known as the State of Maryland so it really doesn't matter for whom I vote. The electoral votes are already in the bank).

Blech to it all.

I've got an address here in VA and we could use the help if you change your mind :cool-smil

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know you live in the People's Republic of MD and don't get out much....but I would refer you to these polls that show on abortion and gay marriage a majority do not support those positions: :cool-smil

SS ,you're way to smart to fall for that poll crap, you and I both know it's bias,where were the calls made to ,....bet a bunch were to the "Bible belt"now call SanFran and see how many are against same sex marriage.

[JoeRedskin]

If Romney comes out and said something along the lines - States have the right to decide if their State should allow gay marriage or the laws regarding abortions, THAT would be a game changer in my mind but I could be wrong.