Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[saden1]

Its really comical to hear the GOP talk about how they will cut taxes, increase defense spending, increase Medicare/Medicaid spending and reduce the deficit. If they can do that and get a better cbo score I will be the first to vote republican every election.

[12thMan]

This is absolutely the way. We have more waste, fraud and abuse within our healthcare system than any other. We spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation. It's really now or never. That repeal bullshit is for the birds.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

This is absolutely the way. We have more waste, fraud and abuse within our healthcare system than any other. We spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation. It's really now or never. That repeal bullshit is for the birds.

How come the right fails to look at the waste, fraud and mismanagement in the DoD? This is latest from them:

Again in 2011, the GAO could not "render an opinion on the 2011 consolidated financial statements of the federal government", with a major obstacle again being "serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable".[19]

In December 2011, the GAO found that "neither the Navy nor the Marine Corps have implemented effective processes for reconciling their FBWT." According to the GAO, "An agency’s FBWT account is similar in concept to a corporate bank account. The difference is that instead of a cash balance, FBWT represents unexpended spending authority in appropriations." In addition, "As of April 2011, there were more than $22 billion unmatched disbursements and collections affecting more than 10,000 lines of accounting."[20]

So how come we are good with this? Cut the pentagon's budget from ear to ear until we can at least get an audit of there expendures. As a citizen im outraged by this, why arent others?

[12thMan]

Naw, they're just concerned with ObamaScare and delusional talking points.

Mind you Obamacare was oringially conceived by Republicans, instituted by the Republican nominee, and upheld by a Republican Supreme Court Justice. So much for socialism I guess.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Naw, they're just concerned with ObamaScare and delusional talking points.

Mind you Obamacare was oringially conceived by Republicans, instituted by the Republican nominee, and upheld by a Republican Supreme Court Justice. So much for socialism I guess.

I think what gets lost in the argument is the fact that both sides agree that something needs to be done to curve the rising costs of healthcare insurance. However, anytime the government steps in and takes something over means more tax dollars coming out of all of our pockets. The logic of it all is that if ONLY those who do not have health insurance are "taxed" to get on this program, how in the world is that going to be enough to support this program? I can't see it being enough to pay for all types of healthcare needed.

Also, speaking from experience, any time a healthcare agency deals with state money, their reimbursement is not nearly as quick as it is dealing with private insurance. It can take up to six months, sometimes longer to get reimbursement back. The argument that someone else had the other day was, "at least the health agency is getting reimbursed" but that argument fails when you consider that the health agency has to have money coming in every month to maintain its day to day operations, purchase supplies, pay its employees, etc...I hope you guys keep in mind that the same issues will take place when these health agencies are waiting for this government reimbursement. I work for a mental health agency, and 70% of our money comes from medicaid and medicare, while the other percentage comes from private insurance and self pay. When your payer source is a governmental payer, then you have to deal with the government approving/or denying the health services rendered. To assume this wouldn't happen in the medical health field as much as it does the mental health field is being quite ignorant to the way in which government interference works when it comes to healthcare.

I hate to say it, but too often, the American people only take a small portion of something instead of looking at all of the components. I'm all for everyone having affordable health insurance, but I'm also for everyone having access to that health service without some government no-name approval of that service.

[Daseal]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I think what gets lost in the argument is the fact that both sides agree that something needs to be done to curve the rising costs of healthcare insurance. However, anytime the government steps in and takes something over means more tax dollars coming out of all of our pockets. The logic of it all is that if ONLY those who do not have health insurance are "taxed" to get on this program, how in the world is that going to be enough to support this program? I can't see it being enough to pay for all types of healthcare needed.

Also, speaking from experience, any time a healthcare agency deals with state money, their reimbursement is not nearly as quick as it is dealing with private insurance. It can take up to six months, sometimes longer to get reimbursement back. The argument that someone else had the other day was, "at least the health agency is getting reimbursed" but that argument fails when you consider that the health agency has to have money coming in every month to maintain its day to day operations, purchase supplies, pay its employees, etc...I hope you guys keep in mind that the same issues will take place when these health agencies are waiting for this government reimbursement. I work for a mental health agency, and 70% of our money comes from medicaid and medicare, while the other percentage comes from private insurance and self pay. When your payer source is a governmental payer, then you have to deal with the government approving/or denying the health services rendered. To assume this wouldn't happen in the medical health field as much as it does the mental health field is being quite ignorant to the way in which government interference works when it comes to healthcare.

I hate to say it, but too often, the American people only take a small portion of something instead of looking at all of the components. I'm all for everyone having affordable health insurance, but I'm also for everyone having access to that health service without some government no-name approval of that service.

Please correct me if I was wrong -- but this is forcing insurance companies to cover everyone -- but along with that, forcing everyone to buy insurance. While the government is mandating it, they won't be 'running' it directly. Most government interactions will be between the government and the insurance agency, not the gov't and consumer and/or provider. If that is wrong, please point me in the right direction.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Please correct me if I was wrong -- but this is forcing insurance companies to cover everyone -- but along with that, forcing everyone to buy insurance. While the government is mandating it, they won't be 'running' it directly. Most government interactions will be between the government and the insurance agency, not the gov't and consumer and/or provider. If that is wrong, please point me in the right direction.

That's the gist it. To put a fine point on it, the law now requires insures to end discriminating based on gender, they can no longer deny coverage to kids based on pre-existing conditions, or drop coverage based on sudden illness. It also eliminates lifetime cap limits on patients.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Please correct me if I was wrong -- but this is forcing insurance companies to cover everyone -- but along with that, forcing everyone to buy insurance. While the government is mandating it, they won't be 'running' it directly. Most government interactions will be between the government and the insurance agency, not the gov't and consumer and/or provider. If that is wrong, please point me in the right direction.

That's only part of it:

For people who can't afford health insurance, the Federal government will pay the states to add them to Medicaid. The income requirement will be expanded to include more of the working poor.
Those who don't qualify for the expanded Medicaid will receive tax credits. States will be required to set up insurance exchanges to make it easier to shop for private health insurance coverage.

You're still going to have several million more people going on medicaid instead of purchasing private health insurance - which means rising taxes on everyone to help shoulder the burden of the cost. I think it remains to be seen just how lower premiums could and will be with more people paying into the private health insurance companies. That I cannot argue for or against until I actually see it put into motion, but my earlier argument would still remain the same; health agencies still having to deal with a long wait period on reimbursement by medicaid, and I could possibly understand an even lengthier wait when adding millions more onto the program.

However, my personal opinion, I do see some good points from Obamacare, although some of it is kind of a wait and see approach. I can understand that subsidizing health insurance enough so that many more could afford to pay the premiums could help lower the premiums. That's basically how it's set up in many workplaces - more employees who are on the company insurance plan, the lower the rates ---- I just wished it was THAT easy though! You also have to consider the flipside - the more people on the insurance, the more claims, which often averages in higher insurance premiums the next year.

I do like the idea of being able to keep children on your insurance plan until they're 26. Seems like more and more kids are graduating college around that age because they're either in grad school or they have had to take a bit longer to get through their schooling. The upside is that I'm assuming parents would still get to possibly claim those children as dependents (although I could be very wrong on that one)?

Lastly, I do like the idea of who are falling into that "doughnut hole" of medicare being able to be covered. That happened to my mother, and I think she has skipped a lot of healthcare that she needed to be on because of not being covered.

Overall though, if the argument is that the right does not have a better plan to put in its place, it's because the right is thinking more in terms of job creation and getting folks back to work - at least that's the claims from the Romney camp. Whether if that comes to fruition or not would remain to be seen, but having people working is ultimately the best solution to a lot of this economic stuff that the government keeps jumping into.

[NC_Skins]

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So now health insurance will reduce crime and homelessness. LMAO

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So now health insurance will reduce crime and homelessness. LMAO

We don't know, we've never had full coverage for everyone until now. Maybe it will.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So now health insurance will reduce crime and homelessness. LMAO

great point about Christian values. lotta hypocracy on the right when it comes to that.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Hyperbole anyone? Here is a link from the Aussie gov't on problems they admit they are facing in their own system. Now imagine how those problems will increase exponentially in the U.S with a much larger population.

yourHealth - 2. Problems with our health system today

I'm a Christian and I've got no problem going to church on Sunday and opposing Obamacare. There are already plenty of gov't programs in place to help the very poor. Obamacare is about gov't control, not helping the less fortunate. This clown needs to stop drinking the socialist kool-aid.

Oh, and this,
Austrailian Income taxes:
under $ 18K = $ 0
18-37K = 19%
37-80K = 32.5%
80 - 180K = 37%
over 180K = 45%
plus 1.5% Medicare tax on all
also 10% VAT (sales tax) which goes to the states

US Tax Brackets - Single Filing
$0 – $8,700 = 10%
$8,700 – $35,350 = 15%
$35,350 – $85,650 = 25%
$85,650 – $178,650 = 28%
$178,650 – $388,350 = 33%
Over $388,350 = $ 35%
plus 1.45% Medicare tax on individual, 1.45% on employer.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm a Christian and I've got no problem going to church on Sunday and opposing Obamacare. There are already plenty of gov't programs in place to help the very poor. Obamacare is about gov't control, not helping the less fortunate. This clown needs to stop drinking the socialist kool-aid.

.

The last time I checked it was a religious sect that was serving cool aid to it's memebers and lying to them.My question to you ...what about the not very poor,what about the people who are doing the best they can to hang on but don't qualify as "very poor",Sammy what do they do?

[12thMan]

Daseal, the mandate really applies to the 30 million uninsured Americans with legal status.