Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

See you in November.

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.

[12thMan]

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923197]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

[saden1]

[quote=12thMan;923206]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=saden1;923210]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

I've been following this one:
RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

but as you said, this will be close.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I've been following this one:
RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

but as you said, this will be close.

From the looks of it Romney has to win 65% of the toss up state electoral votes. For your sake you better hope people don't hold the fact that he is a Mormon against him and he manages pull in 89 of the 136 toss electoral votes.

[HailGreen28]

[quote=12thMan;923206]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

[12thMan]

[quote=HailGreen28;923212]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=12thMan;923218]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans
- Obamacare federal mandate (read unfunded mandate) crushes state budgets.
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes

We all have first-hand stories of bad healthcare experiences, what everyone needs to ask is has gov't involvement helped or hindered. In my experience gov't involvement has been a detriment. Another important and simple question to ask....if socialized medicine is so great, why do the affluent and often military personnel from other countries seek treatment in the U.S.?

Pretty simple stuff when you get down to it; The shiny new car looks great, but when the monthly payments come due.....not so much.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans

..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post

numbers take into account Medicare cuts.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

"Benefits" of Obamacare

Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business

[NC_Skins]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business

Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post923029

[Giantone]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

"
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes

.

Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=Giantone;923279]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.

Rationing happens in other countries with socialized medicine, why won't it happen here?

What CNN Didn't Ask About Canada Health Care Rationing | NewsBusters.org

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com

Even the Physicians for National Health agree their will be rationing. Check out the FAQ question on "will there be rationing".
Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program

It's common knowledge that UK and Canada for example set an amount the gov't will pay for healthcare, then it works to stay within that amount....how can rationing not happen in that environment?

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:





I know I come off as abrasive sometimes, call me on it when I do please. I want to stay civil. Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?

If health care insurance is fundamentally reformed now, why is everybody with a solid paper trail being forced to buy into it?