Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[HailGreen28]

[quote=12thMan;923206]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

[12thMan]

[quote=HailGreen28;923212]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=12thMan;923218]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans
- Obamacare federal mandate (read unfunded mandate) crushes state budgets.
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes

We all have first-hand stories of bad healthcare experiences, what everyone needs to ask is has gov't involvement helped or hindered. In my experience gov't involvement has been a detriment. Another important and simple question to ask....if socialized medicine is so great, why do the affluent and often military personnel from other countries seek treatment in the U.S.?

Pretty simple stuff when you get down to it; The shiny new car looks great, but when the monthly payments come due.....not so much.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans

..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post

numbers take into account Medicare cuts.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

"Benefits" of Obamacare

Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business

[NC_Skins]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business

Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post923029

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=NC_Skins;923234]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029

You can't discredit the source without reading the info, if the facts are correct, they're correct. I'd try to find sources in the lamestream media, but they bury anything that might hurt the "chosen one" and doctor video/voice tapes to advance their political agendas.

But to appease you, directly from the House Ways & Means Committee....oops they're biased too because the House is in GOP hands...
http://republicans.waysandmeans.hous...wer_Report.pdf

Many of the numbers come from GAO btw.

[firstdown]

[quote=NC_Skins;923234]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post923029

The link you provided using the non-bias Media Matters.

[Giantone]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

"
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes

.

Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=Giantone;923279]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.

Rationing happens in other countries with socialized medicine, why won't it happen here?

What CNN Didn't Ask About Canada Health Care Rationing | NewsBusters.org

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com

Even the Physicians for National Health agree their will be rationing. Check out the FAQ question on "will there be rationing".
Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program

It's common knowledge that UK and Canada for example set an amount the gov't will pay for healthcare, then it works to stay within that amount....how can rationing not happen in that environment?

[Giantone]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923298]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Rationing happens in other countries with socialized medicine, why won't it happen here?

What CNN Didn't Ask About Canada Health Care Rationing | NewsBusters.org

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com

Even the Physicians for National Health agree their will be rationing. Check out the FAQ question on "will there be rationing".
Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program

It's common knowledge that UK and Canada for example set an amount the gov't will pay for healthcare, then it works to stay within that amount....how can rationing not happen in that environment?

Doctors will still be making money,very,very ,very good money.Sammy CNN,really,I would'nt quote them from now on...according to them the healthcare Law was shot down!Remeber this is still a matter of choice and you can get whatever it is you need done wherever you want it done,you keep saying the UK and Canada........well we ain't them.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:





I know I come off as abrasive sometimes, call me on it when I do please. I want to stay civil. Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?

If health care insurance is fundamentally reformed now, why is everybody with a solid paper trail being forced to buy into it?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?

Well, if you not once, but twice try to make a false insinuation about the health care program, what do you expect?

It was said twice that Massachusetts had the highest premiums in the nation and it was implied heavily that it was all due to Romneycare (aka..obamacare). Now this person doesn't do any research into the state. Didn't find out they also have one of the highest costs of living AND also have one of the highest averages of income in then the nation as well. In the end, we find out that the people of Mass. are paying LESS of a % of their income towards health care premiums than say the people in the southern states.

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info.

Did you give 12th a "nice try" for his earlier post that HG28 commented on?

12th, you can't quote the spokeskid without fact-checking him, c'mon man!

OMB: 4 Yrs of Spending 24%+ of GDP; WH: “Demonstrated Significant Fiscal Restraint’ | CNSNews.com

HG28, nice find on the charts BTW....and you're definitely not abrasive in my book.