Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[NC_Skins]

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study | Reuters

Why is it we keep being spoon fed about how wonderful our system is and how we have the best care in the world....blah..blah...blah


Not even remotely close.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study | Reuters

Why is it we keep being spoon fed about how wonderful our system is and how we have the best care in the world....blah..blah...blah


Not even remotely close.

for someone who decries using Fox News as a source, listen to how the study publisher is described in the linked article:

Previous reports by the nonprofit fund, which conducts research into healthcare performance and promotes changes in the U.S. system, have been heavily used by policymakers and politicians pressing for healthcare reform.(emphasis added)

Anytime the US is compared in a world study, you need to ask yourself, is the US going to stack up equally with a country like the Netherlands(#1 on the list). They are two completely different animals with 2 different economies. Sometimes statistics just don't say the whole truth.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

for someone who decries using Fox News as a source, listen to how the study publisher is described in the linked article:

Did you just compare Reuters to Fox?...lol Also, I'm missing your point about The Commonwealth Fund group.(the people who conducts these surveys)

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Anytime the US is compared in a world study, you need to ask yourself, is the US going to stack up equally with a country like the Netherlands(#1 on the list). They are two completely different animals with 2 different economies. Sometimes statistics just don't say the whole truth.

Well, I'm not looking as much as what we pay out as compared to these aspects.

The report looks at five measures of healthcare -- quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and the ability to lead long, healthy, productive lives.

The economies should have absolutely nothing to do with the quality and efficiency of the health care received. Aren't we touted as having the best doctors in the world, yet the foreigners get better quality care? The major thing that economies would affect is the cost and the access to health care.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Did you just compare Reuters to Fox?...lol Also, I'm missing your point about The Commonwealth Fund group.(the people who conducts these surveys)

The point is, Reuters is just reporting what a survey group reported, a la Fox, the underlying group has a very specific axe to grind, and the impartiality of their survey is what has to be questioned. Reuters did due diligence by stating the group's bias, but that doesn't suddenly mean that the report has no flaws...

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Well, I'm not looking as much as what we pay out as compared to these aspects.



The economies should have absolutely nothing to do with the quality and efficiency of the health care received. Aren't we touted as having the best doctors in the world, yet the foreigners get better quality care? The major thing that economies would affect is the cost and the access to health care.

Go look at the underlying questions and how the rankings were achieved, then see if it doesn't also have to do with how societies are structured, and what the surveyer are trying to achieve.

[NC_Skins]

Yovany Gonzalez's Wells Fargo Lawsuit Alleges Bank Fired Him, Cut Dying Daughter's Health Insurance



Reality sucks big time when it comes to capitalism. It's not as pretty as we are told it is. Also, **** Wells Fargo.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yovany Gonzalez's Wells Fargo Lawsuit Alleges Bank Fired Him, Cut Dying Daughter's Health Insurance



Reality sucks big time when it comes to capitalism. It's not as pretty as we are told it is. Also, **** Wells Fargo.

What would you propose as prettier?


This guys story is a little odd too. If anything he should sue the hospital or the insurance company for not going foward with the surgery.

Everyone knows he would have been covered under COBRA so im not sure why the surgery would have been canceled. It almost sounds like he canceled the surgery because he didnt think he would have been covered, which would have only been true if he was fired for gross misconduct. Perhaps "falsifying his time records" suffices as gross misconduct?

Regardless a charity (i wonder if it was a disgusting Christian charity???) ended up paying his COBRA premium, although the article doesnt say if his daughter ever got the surgery. Maybe she got the surgery an inconsequential amount of time later? I wonder what type of cancer she had?

And this guy had life insurance on his daughter (and it sounds like other kids). Ive always questioned the practice of getting life insurance on your kids and unless it was a "free" employee benefit i would question the purpose of the life insurance in this instance. Oddly a charity (pleeeease dont let it be an evil Christian one) payed for this guys COBRA premium, but he apperantly had money to pay the premium for his dying daughter's life insurance of which he was the beneficary.

To me the life insurance sounds like the whole basis of the lawsuit. He got fired and Wells Fargo didnt give him timely info on how to extend his dying daughters life insurance.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

What would you propose as prettier?


This guys story is a little odd too. If anything he should sue the hospital or the insurance company for not going foward with the surgery.

Everyone knows he would have been covered under COBRA so im not sure why the surgery would have been canceled. It almost sounds like he canceled the surgery because he didnt think he would have been covered, which would have only been true if he was fired for gross misconduct. Perhaps "falsifying his time records" suffices as gross misconduct?

Regardless a charity (i wonder if it was a disgusting Christian charity???) ended up paying his COBRA premium, although the article doesnt say if his daughter ever got the surgery. Maybe she got the surgery an inconsequential amount of time later? I wonder what type of cancer she had?

And this guy had life insurance on his daughter (and it sounds like other kids). Ive always questioned the practice of getting life insurance on your kids and unless it was a "free" employee benefit i would question the purpose of the life insurance in this instance. Oddly a charity (pleeeease dont let it be an evil Christian one) payed for this guys COBRA premium, but he apperantly had money to pay the premium for his dying daughter's life insurance of which he was the beneficary.

To me the life insurance sounds like the whole basis of the lawsuit. He got fired and Wells Fargo didnt give him timely info on how to extend his dying daughters life insurance.

I sell alot of life insurance on children. I can do a 100,000 pernament life policy for next to nothing and its something they can keep for the rest of their life. It guarantees them the coverage for life at a low cost. People also use them as a way to save for college. The cash accumulates tax free and you can take the cash out without paying taxes as long as you keep the policy inforce.

I don't understand why he would not have just paid the cobra premium if she had to have the surgury. I also question if his health ins. is canceled the day he is fired. I would think the health ins. com would have to formally inform them of cancelation. I don't sell health ins. so I'm not sure how these group plans work. I do sell some other group policies and the employee is not canceled the day they are let go on those type policies. Also if he paid part of the premium it seems that he would have coverage util the next bill cycle. I hate to say it but it looks like he is trying to profit off his daughter death.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

What would you propose as prettier?

Probably a mix of it all. The problem with any system still lies with its run by humans and as such, is flawed.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Do you honestly believe you can't go to any other country and find a hard luck story, where a doctor made an error, or government regulators screwed up and didn't let an operation occur when they should have?

Capitalistic approaches have problems, as do socialistic ones or any other -ism you feel like trying out. Reality sucks big time when it comes to life's unfairness and hardship. That's just Reality.

Actually, there are worse stories around the world than this one. I was being a smart ass about capitalism because of the myth of how the system will benefit you if you work hard and play by the rules. (or that's what is indoctrinated in many) Reality is, capitalism was doing exactly what it was supposed to do. It has no conscience. It doesn't care who it hurts or who gets killed. All it cares about is the bottom line. I agree with you though. That is just reality.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yovany Gonzalez's Wells Fargo Lawsuit Alleges Bank Fired Him, Cut Dying Daughter's Health Insurance



Reality sucks big time when it comes to capitalism. It's not as pretty as we are told it is. Also, **** Wells Fargo.

Do you honestly believe you can't go to any other country and find a hard luck story, where a doctor made an error, or government regulators screwed up and didn't let an operation occur when they should have?

Capitalistic approaches have problems, as do socialistic ones or any other -ism you feel like trying out. Reality sucks big time when it comes to life's unfairness and hardship. That's just Reality.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The point is, Reuters is just reporting what a survey group reported, a la Fox, the underlying group has a very specific axe to grind, and the impartiality of their survey is what has to be questioned. Reuters did due diligence by stating the group's bias, but that doesn't suddenly mean that the report has no flaws...

I think there was a difference in what Fox was doing and what Reuters did. First off, the guy who wrote the Fox piece is a psychiatrist. He should have known the study was flawed and that while he wasn't dishonest, he didn't go out of his way to point out the flaws with this. Now, had the guy been a simple reporter, I wouldn't have had as much as issue, but this is a professional in that particular field and should have known better. That's where I think the difference between the two pieces are.

I'll concede the point that yes, there probably are flaws with the US health care ranking as noted in this article.

An Ill-Conceived Health-Care Ranking - WSJ.com


My other issue is with your assertion that the group doing the survey has a axe to grind? What axe do they have to grind? Mind you, this report was done after Obamacare was already passed through legislation. Also, these type of reports have been out long before Romney/Obamacare even existed. Whatever "axe they have to grind" certainly isn't clear.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Go look at the underlying questions and how the rankings were achieved, then see if it doesn't also have to do with how societies are structured, and what the surveyer are trying to achieve.

We are the most prosperous nation on the planet (well china is) yet we rank as low as we do? I think culture aspects play a bigger part in all of this than does the economics of it. Obesity rates are astronomical in our country and probably plays a huge part in many of our healthcare issues.

What is the surveyor trying to achieve? I still haven't come across anything that would say otherwise. To improve health care in the US? If that's what they are trying to achieve, than that's a good goal to have.