2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Simple question. Ideology aside,was there anything factually incorrect in what she said? Yes or no

Yes, several factual inaccuracies.

Cutter: Obama's plan doesn't cut benefits. Lie.
Truth: Even factcheck agrees Obama's plan will reduce benefits for those on Medicare Advantage plans.

Cutter claims Romney's plan "takes away guaranteed benefits for seniors". Flat out lie.
Truth: Romney and Ryan have said several times, their plan doesn't affect anyone under 55.

Cutter: Obama's plan extends Medicare by 8 years.....straight BS. This is likely a wild distortion from the absurd claim that under Romney/Ryan Medicare is bankrupt by 2016 and under Obama's plan it doesn't bankrupt until 2024.
Truth: CBO and many others have stated the Medicare Trust Fund will be bankrupt under Obama's plan, best case by 2024, worst case by 2020. I don't know where the hell Cutter's claim of Medicare being bankrupt by 2016 comes from.

That's a start. While I'm answering stuff....whatever happened to the Obama junk-bond loans to bankrupt green energy companies response? Don't kill yourself on it, there is no response other than "galactically corrupt".

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Yes, several factual inaccuracies.

Cutter: Obama's plan doesn't cut benefits. Lie.
Truth: Even factcheck agrees Obama's plan will reduce benefits for those on Medicare Advantage plans.

Cutter claims Romney's plan "takes away guaranteed benefits for seniors". Flat out lie.
Truth: Romney and Ryan have said several times, their plan doesn't affect anyone under 55.

Cutter: Obama's plan extends Medicare by 8 years.....straight BS. This is likely a wild distortion from the absurd claim that under Romney/Ryan Medicare is bankrupt by 2016 and under Obama's plan it doesn't bankrupt until 2024.
Truth: CBO and many others have stated the Medicare Trust Fund will be bankrupt under Obama's plan, best case by 2024, worst case by 2020. I don't know where the hell Cutter's claim of Medicare being bankrupt by 2016 comes from.

That's a start. While I'm answering stuff....whatever happened to the Obama junk-bond loans to bankrupt green energy companies response? Don't kill yourself on it, there is no response other than "galactically corrupt".

I'll take CBOs word over Politifact everyday of the week. And if you believe that it's true that Obama cut Medicare benefits to seniors, I can't have a Medicare debate with you. We can debate about other things, but this conversation is a non-starter.

It's not the patients that have benefits cut, it's the providers. Here's a link from CBS: That myth has been debunked by every major news outlet for the past week. Center, left and right -- they've all clarified and made the point clear.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57494197/romneys-$716b-medicare-cut-attack-is-dubious/

Another article in today's New York Times. Please read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/op...pagewanted=all

It's also a fact, every independent study shows that Medicare's solvency has been increased by 8 years.

Again, I think because you want something to be true, then in your mind it's true. That's not how it works, Slingin'

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'll take CBOs word over Politifact everyday of the week. And if you believe that it's true that Obama cut Medicare benefits to seniors, I can't have a Medicare debate with you. We can debate about other things, but this conversation is a non-starter.

Please understand what I'm saying, the cuts to Medicare providers (not "greedy insurance companies", but docs & hospitals) will result in providers either closing or not taking Medicare patients. If that's not a reduction in services (benefits) to seniors, particularly in rural areas, I don't know what is.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'll take CBOs word over Politifact everyday of the week. And if you believe that it's true that Obama cut Medicare benefits to seniors, I can't have a Medicare debate with you. We can debate about other things, but this conversation is a non-starter.

It's not the patients that have benefits cut, it's the providers. Here's a link from CBS: That myth has been debunked by every major news outlet for the past week. Center, left and right -- they've all clarified and made the point clear.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57494197/romneys-$716b-medicare-cut-attack-is-dubious/

Another article in today's New York Times. Please read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/op...pagewanted=all

It's also a fact, every independent study shows that Medicare's solvency has been increased by 8 years.

Again, I think because you want something to be true, then in your mind it's true. That's not how it works, Slingin'

So you think they can cut funding and payments to the providers and not have any affect on the patients.? You do know that doctors limit how many medicare patients they have because they don't make enough money off them to pay their bills. You reduce it even more and what do you think your going to get?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's not the patients that have benefits cut, it's the providers.

This is more info on my point about Medicare cutting "benefits". This study shows increased mortality rates due to Medicare cuts that happened in the mid 90s. The cuts then were $ 40B over 4 yrs. I believe. Pretty dry read tho.

http://papers.nber.org/tmp/73509-w16859.pdf

Another good article (albeit by a guy on the right) on the differences in Medicare plans.

Yes, Obamacare Cuts Medicare More Than President Romney Would - Forbes