Official Cuts from Around the NFL Thread

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So what consequences do the owners have when they cut the player before the contract is up?

None, because that's what was negotiated in the CBA.

What consequence does the player have to face when he signs a contract with a fat roster bonus and then his production drops off.

[44 goes 50 gut]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

None, because that's what was negotiated in the CBA.

So does that make it right? It seems like (and hey maybe I'm reading you wrong) these two posts you're arguing that because the status quo exists. That justifies it and makes it right. The owners use players up and toss them away with Fans such as yourself applauding. While smarter players who try and leverage their abilities and hold out, are hated on by fans because "they are breaking their contract".

Sorry but I'm not going to base my sympathies on the letter of the CBA without bothering to think about it.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

What consequence does the player have to face when he signs a contract with a fat roster bonus and then his production drops off.

The team can and often does renegotiate the contract downward. Of course the player can simply be cut without pay beyond any guaranteed money... I'm sure you're not genuinely meaning to ask that question and you had some point in mind but I'm not sure what it is?

Does it happen in a few select high profile cases that Players get the better of ownership? Sure, but for every Haynesworth or Deon Sanders making an owner look like an idiot (or proving him to be one), there's a dozen lesser players who spend the rest of their lives with messed up knees, a limp, post concussion syndrome, early onset arthritis etc. and all they got was a thank you and a bus ticket, or at best a pennies on the dollar injury settlement.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 44 goes 50 gut

So does that make it right? It seems like (and hey maybe I'm reading you wrong) these two posts you're arguing that because the status quo exists. That justifies it and makes it right. The owners use players up and toss them away with Fans such as yourself applauding. While smarter players who try and leverage their abilities and hold out, are hated on by fans because "they are breaking their contract".

Sorry but I'm not going to base my sympathies on the letter of the CBA without bothering to think about it.

Don't know how smart MJD's holdout was, he gained nothing, hurt his public image, is behind in conditioning and learning the playbook.

Never said anything about "hating" MJD. Just saying if a player(likely under agent advice) is going to pull a hold-out make sure he's got leverage to make it work. And the "evil" owners "throwing away" players line is tired. The coaches are the ones who make the cut decisions. In a violent game like football, no way there will ever be guaranteed contracts.

The team can and often does renegotiate the contract downward. Of course the player can simply be cut without pay beyond any guaranteed money... I'm sure you're not genuinely meaning to ask that question and you had some point in mind but I'm not sure what it is?

Never heard of a team negotiating a contract downward? Example?

[44 goes 50 gut]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Don't know how smart MJD's holdout was, he gained nothing, hurt his public image, is behind in conditioning and learning the playbook.

Never said anything about "hating" MJD. Just saying if a player(likely under agent advice) is going to pull a hold-out make sure he's got leverage to make it work. And the "evil" owners "throwing away" players line is tired. The coaches are the ones who make the cut decisions. In a violent game like football, no way there will ever be guaranteed contracts.

Never heard of a team negotiating a contract downward? Example?

Never heard of renegotiating for less money/cap hit?

I think the throw away line is shiny and evocative, so there we are... The fact of the matter is RB's in the NFL suffer rather severe punishment, and are usually discarded before they are 30 or much older. For that reason alone I can't blame a player for looking after his bottom line, even if like MJD he's unsuccessful.

Carson Palmer the same deal but for different reasons, he was apparently sick of playing for a losing franchise and an idiot owner, he took it further than MJD and he got his way onto a different franchise that he was obviously willing to play for to get the trade done (even if you want to say he jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire LOL).. You could say Palmer got out of Cincy, and that much at least was a "win" for him.

Point is the collusive NFL ownership group does not deserve player loyalty... Because they exhibit next to no loyalty themselves. Besides some token number retirement or a ring of fame, even the very greatest players for the team rarely get any loyalty. See Peyton Manning...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 44 goes 50 gut

Never heard of renegotiating for less money/cap hit?

I'm not talking about a new contract negotiation, I'm talking about an existing contract. Once the contract is signed the team can't renegotiate it down. They can turn a salary into a signing bonus and lower a cap hit in the short term, but that winds up in the player getting more guaranteed money.

I think the throw away line is shiny and evocative, so there we are... The fact of the matter is RB's in the NFL suffer rather severe punishment, and are usually discarded before they are 30 or much older. For that reason alone I can't blame a player for looking after his bottom line, even if like MJD he's unsuccessful.

No question any player should look out for his best interest...cause no one else will. But when you sign a long term deal you need to live with the fact that others will sign deals after yours for more annual money. If you don't like that, have your agent negotiate a short term deal, or some sort of guaranteed performance bonus. Once a player signs, unless he's got some extra-ordinary leverage (which even MJD didn't have here), no team is going to renegotiate with two years left in a deal....especially with a RB.

Point is the collusive NFL ownership group does not deserve player loyalty... Because they exhibit next to no loyalty themselves. Besides some token number retirement or a ring of fame, even the very greatest players for the team rarely get any loyalty. See Peyton Manning...

Just like the real business world, there is no loyalty by/to companies anymore. I can't feel much pity for guys who are making 7 figures and know full well what they're getting into when they sign a contract.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm not talking about a new contract negotiation, I'm talking about an existing contract. Once the contract is signed the team can't renegotiate it down. They can turn a salary into a signing bonus and lower a cap hit in the short term, but that winds up in the player getting more guaranteed money.

Why do you say they cant renegotiate a contract down? Telling a player to drop their 5 mil base salary down to 2.5 or 3 mil or else they will be cut has made many players do exactly that, renegotiate a lower priced deal. Not just one that saves cap money this year but works out to be more guaranteed money for the player.

If the owners can outright cut a player under contract, they can absolutely ask him to take less money. In the NFL, any player contract can be negotiated up or down at any given time. The team just has to be able to account for guaranteed money in previous and current contracts under the salary cap. They also have to be prepared to cut the player if he wont renegotiate down like they want. Teams are allowed to cut the salary or cut the player if they dont agree to a salary cut. Now, the salary cut has to be negotiated and agreed upon by the player, the team just cant announce that the salary is being halved without an agreement by the player. However cutting the player holds no obligations other than fitting his accelerated guaranteed money under the cap.

As a point of reference, Chris Cooley offered to cut his salary to stay with the Redskins. Why would he do that if he knew it was illegal in the NFL to do so? Because its a perfectly legal thing to do in the NFL. It wouldnt have affected any guaranteed money, only his base salary, but it would have been a cut in pay on an already negotiated contract none-the-less. And they would not of added extra years or any extra guaranteed money on the deal had it happened.