Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

How on earth are you questioning Morgan and Robinson. Both are VERY good wide receivers. WR is one place where we dont need to add anyone. Its easily our deepest, most talented position group.

QB is the most talented position group. After that I don't know...maybe a tie between a lot of mediocrity. But specific to WR neither Morgan nor Robinson are legit starters i.e. neither will be a regular starter for another franchise in the NFL. Robinson is a decent route runner but lacks speed and seems to get lost downfield. Also, he's not breaking tackles. Morgan has the physical gifts to be a starter but doesn't have the football IQ of a starter.

Garcon is a starter, but what a meant earlier is this foot injury is likely to linger...they often do
Hankerson should start IMO and Moss in the slot. But if Garcon isn't healthy enough to be effective there's room for a legit starter. I think that guy should replace Banks btw.

At the same time we need to bolster the defense with today's injury news. I just don't think Carter is the answer...who else is out there?

Edit: LB is probably the most talented (after QB) like another said. London is the man. Kerrigan is now the 2nd best player on defense. Riley and the new starter need to step up!!

[Swarley]

Originally Posted by The Goat

QB is the most talented position group. After that I don't know...maybe a tie between a lot of mediocrity. But specific to WR neither Morgan nor Robinson are legit starters i.e. neither will be a regular starter for another franchise in the NFL. Robinson is a decent route runner but lacks speed and seems to get lost downfield. Also, he's not breaking tackles. Morgan has the physical gifts to be a starter but doesn't have the football IQ of a starter.

Garcon is a starter, but what a meant earlier is this foot injury is likely to linger...they often do
Hankerson should start IMO and Moss in the slot. But if Garcon isn't healthy enough to be effective there's room for a legit starter. I think that guy should replace Banks btw.

At the same time we need to bolster the defense with today's injury news. I just don't think Carter is the answer...who else is out there?

Robinson lacks speed? Are we talking about the same guy?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Swarley

Robinson lacks speed? Are we talking about the same guy?

Robinson ran a 4.4 at the combine, speed is clearly not an issue.

Goat thinks Garcon lacks speed too, keep that in mind.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Robinson ran a 4.4 at the combine, speed is clearly not an issue.

Goat thinks Garcon lacks speed too, keep that in mind.

References to combine numbers (no pads, perfect conditions) drive me bonkers. Gamespeed is a whole nuther animal. If speed stats translated to the field Jerry Rice wouldn't have played pro ball...and a million guys nobody knows would be HOFers.

Robinson doesn't outrun defenders, he gets open by running good routes though and that is definitely valuable. Garcon outran Patrick Robinson after Robinson bumped his teammate and stumbled a bit. Otherwise Garcon hasn't blazed by anyone. But Garcon plays hard and will break a tackle here and there. Both guys have qualities though and especially with Garcon we haven't had a WR who could break tackles in a long, long time.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

References to combine numbers (no pads, perfect conditions) drive me bonkers. Gamespeed is a whole nuther animal. If speed stats translated to the field Jerry Rice wouldn't have played pro ball...and a million guys nobody knows would be HOFers.

Robinson doesn't outrun defenders, he gets open by running good routes though and that is definitely valuable. Garcon outran Patrick Robinson after Robinson bumped his teammate and stumbled a bit. Otherwise Garcon hasn't blazed by anyone. But Garcon plays hard and will break a tackle here and there. Both guys have qualities though and especially with Garcon we haven't had a WR who could break tackles in a long, long time.

You seem to think if guys don't take every catch to the house they don't have speed.

Garçon has more than enough speed, he showed it last week and in Indy. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.

For someone who seems so hung up on speed, I don't understand why you talk up slowsters like Plax or Gaffney.

[Swarley]

To stay on topic, injuries arent exactly the death knell to playoff chances. We saw the Giants overcome injuries last season and win it all and the Packers did the same.

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.

Great point right there

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

You seem to think if guys don't take every catch to the house they don't have speed.

Garçon has more than enough speed, he showed it last week and in Indy. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.

For someone who seems so hung up on speed, I don't understand why you talk up slowsters like Plax or Gaffney.

Word...I didn't explain very well. I'm saying these guys don't have game-breaking speed like Fitz, Wallace etc to burn the defender(s). That's all. Neither do we have a big target type guy who can consistently bring in the jump ball. We've got a nice WR corp, but nothing elite in any facet of the things that make WRs elite e.g. size, speed, or the uncanny skill to consistently create space and create plays from nothing.

At least with Plax we have a big target who would undoubtedly help in the endzone, and would UNDOUBTEDLY help in the situations Kyle keeps putting RGIII into with WRs and defenders concentrated in pockets down-field. It drove me nuts yesterday, but that's a whole nuther topic and I need to rewatch the game to break it down.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Word...I didn't explain very well. I'm saying these guys don't have game-breaking speed like Fitz, Wallace etc to burn the defender(s). That's all. Neither do we have a big target type guy who can consistently bring in the jump ball. We've got a nice WR corp, but nothing elite in any facet of the things that make WRs elite e.g. size, speed, or the uncanny skill to consistently create space and create plays from nothing.

At least with Plax we have a big target who would undoubtedly help in the endzone, and would UNDOUBTEDLY help in the situations Kyle keeps putting RGIII into with WRs and defenders concentrated in pockets down-field. It drove me nuts yesterday, but that's a whole nuther topic and I need to rewatch the game to break it down.

No we don't have a burner like Wallace, not many teams do.

We're only 2 games in, I think we need to give things a little more time to play out. The WR spot isn't high on our needs. Getting Garcon back would really help. And someone like Robinson is still developing.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Swarley

Robinson lacks speed? Are we talking about the same guy?

Yeah, I thought he was supposed to be a burner too!? I noticed the ball he caught over the middle yesterday he couldn't beat the one defender (safety I think) on the outside. The downfield bomb made him look open because he got lost lol, not because he outran anybody.

Good route runner though quicker than he is fast, I could see him in the slot next year if Tana is gone.

[Swarley]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Yeah, I thought he was supposed to be a burner too!? I noticed the ball he caught over the middle yesterday he couldn't beat the one defender (safety I think) on the outside. The downfield bomb made him look open because he got lost lol, not because he outran anybody.

Good route runner though quicker than he is fast, I could see him in the slot next year if Tana is gone.

I don't think it goes

Burner -> Lacks speed

There's an in-between and in my estimation that's where Robinson is.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by The Goat

QB is the most talented position group. After that I don't know...maybe a tie between a lot of mediocrity. But specific to WR neither Morgan nor Robinson are legit starters i.e. neither will be a regular starter for another franchise in the NFL. Robinson is a decent route runner but lacks speed and seems to get lost downfield. Also, he's not breaking tackles. Morgan has the physical gifts to be a starter but doesn't have the football IQ of a starter.

Garcon is a starter, but what a meant earlier is this foot injury is likely to linger...they often do
Hankerson should start IMO and Moss in the slot. But if Garcon isn't healthy enough to be effective there's room for a legit starter. I think that guy should replace Banks btw.

At the same time we need to bolster the defense with today's injury news. I just don't think Carter is the answer...who else is out there?

Edit: LB is probably the most talented (after QB) like another said. London is the man. Kerrigan is now the 2nd best player on defense. Riley and the new starter need to step up!!

Robinson doesnt lack speed, i will give you he looked lost down field on the pass he dropped.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by The Goat

QB is the most talented position group. After that I don't know...maybe a tie between a lot of mediocrity. But specific to WR neither Morgan nor Robinson are legit starters i.e. neither will be a regular starter for another franchise in the NFL. Robinson is a decent route runner but lacks speed and seems to get lost downfield. Also, he's not breaking tackles. Morgan has the physical gifts to be a starter but doesn't have the football IQ of a starter.

Garcon is a starter, but what a meant earlier is this foot injury is likely to linger...they often do
Hankerson should start IMO and Moss in the slot. But if Garcon isn't healthy enough to be effective there's room for a legit starter. I think that guy should replace Banks btw.

At the same time we need to bolster the defense with today's injury news. I just don't think Carter is the answer...who else is out there?

Edit: LB is probably the most talented (after QB) like another said. London is the man. Kerrigan is now the 2nd best player on defense. Riley and the new starter need to step up!!

There is no way you can justify QB being our deepest and most talented position. After Griffin, you've got a a COMPLETE UKNOWN in cousins and COMPLETELY HORRIBLE player in grossman.

You know you have good depth when you starter leaves Thr game and you don't miss a beat. We've experienced that with WR and, to a lesser degree, LB. If you want to say QB is our deepest position, then explain to me how you k ow the drop off from griffin to cousins to grossman is less significant than the drop off from garçon to Robinson to hankerson.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

There is no way you can justify QB being our deepest and most talented position. After Griffin, you've got a a COMPLETE UKNOWN in cousins and COMPLETELY HORRIBLE player in grossman.

You know you have good depth when you starter leaves Thr game and you don't miss a beat. We've experienced that with WR and, to a lesser degree, LB. If you want to say QB is our deepest position, then explain to me how you k ow the drop off from griffin to cousins to grossman is less significant than the drop off from garçon to Robinson to hankerson.

RGIII (alone) makes QB the most talented position group IMO. Cousins looked good in preseason so that's something. LB group is definitely talented.

I think we did miss Garcon yesterday. Don't remember seeing any of our WRs break a tackle for extra yards.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by The Goat

RGIII (alone) makes QB the most talented position group IMO. Cousins looked good in preseason so that's something. LB group is definitely talented.

I think we did miss Garcon yesterday. Don't remember seeing any of our WRs break a tackle for extra yards.

I think where we disagree is in our definition of "most talented position group." At the moment, RGIII is the most talented player on our team period - and by a fairly wide margin. If we only looked at the starters, i'd agree with you. But when we consider depth, we're by necessity considering the drop off between the starter and the backup. Cousins is the backup and he's an unknown that looked good in preseason - still, the dropp-off between him and RGIII is substantial. If you think QB is a deeper position, you would be essentially say we'd do better as a team with cousins and our starting WRs than RGIII and our backup WRs. I just dont see it.

Using my definition of depth as being drop off in talent between starters and backups, i'd rank our deepest position groups as being (in order):
1. WR
2. LB
3. DL
4. RB
5. TE
6. QB

If we're going to lose players to injury, i think our team can best afford to lose players in that order (WR would hurt our team the least, QB would hurt our team the most). I didnt rank DB at all because we have no talent there to speak of in the first place.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, we've lost a starting LB and DL and have compentent backups to step in. I really dont think the drop off will be that signficant in our starting lineup. We've got GOOD DEPTH at those positions. Honestly, if someone told we were going to lose two defensive starters, and gave me the choice of picking the two to lose, i'd have chosen Carriker and Orakpo. Think of how bad we'd be off if we'd lost Kerrigan and Bowen.