Release Josh Morgan or else....

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Is there a player fast enough for you Goat?

Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.

So we are going to ignore the fact that Garcon had Wayne, Harrison, and Clark to share passes with, and to say that Garcon is a poor man's Boldin is a terrible comparison because they play nothing alike, Garcon does not have Boldin's strength, and as much as you do not want to aknowledge it, Garcon is a burner and has speed that Boldin does not.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

So we are going to ignore the fact that Garcon had Wayne, Harrison, and Clark to share passes with, and to say that Garcon is a poor man's Boldin is a terrible comparison because they play nothing alike, Garcon does not have Boldin's strength, and as much as you do not want to aknowledge it, Garcon is a burner and has speed that Boldin does not.

A younger Boldin was quicker, faster than Garcon. But I still wouldn't call either a pure burner at any point in their respective careers. Boldin is just a much more talented WR.

I think they're a pretty good physical comparison size wise, but you hit the nail on the head Garcon doesn't have the strength.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

A younger Boldin was quicker, faster than Garcon. But I still wouldn't call either a pure burner at any point in their respective careers. Boldin is just a much more talented WR.

I think they're a pretty good physical comparison size wise, but you hit the nail on the head Garcon doesn't have the strength.

In what universe?

Boldin was SLOW at the combine (4.7), part of the reason he slipped into the 2nd round.

I have to agree with EQ, I don't see any real comparison between the two. They both have different skill sets.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

In what universe?

Boldin was SLOW at the combine (4.7), part of the reason he slipped into the 2nd round.

I have to agree with EQ, I don't see any real comparison between the two. They both have different skill sets.

It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by The Goat

It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com

Isaac Bruce for me. would be great if he comes close to his career numbers

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Isaac Bruce for me. would be great if he comes close to his career numbers

Played with London in STL and won a ring.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com

I don't need a 40 time to tell me that Boldin was never faster or quicker than Garcon. But it at least establishes a baseline to go from, that's all.

I'm not sure who Garcon reminds me of honestly. He's got a good mix of size and speed. All I can say is he's a quality WR, more so than you seem to want to give him credit for, for whatever reason.

[RedskinsParadigm]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't need a 40 time to tell me that Boldin was never faster or quicker than Garcon. But it at least establishes a baseline to go from, that's all.

I'm not sure who Garcon reminds me of honestly. He's got a good mix of size and speed. All I can say is he's a quality WR, more so than you seem to want to give him credit for, for whatever reason.

Rod Smith. Similar stature, similar style of play, similar pedigree coming into the league, similar skillsets within Shanahan's offense. Both were physical players that played bigger than their sizes, fought for ever yard after the catch, could run the entire route tree, had the ability to be explosive and play in possession, and took pride in the running game.

Pierre Garcon strikes me as a great all-around WR. He may not be elite in any single area, but he's very strong in all of them.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by The Goat

It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com

One person I know compared him to Art Monk, not in that he is going to be all of that, but his frame and willingness to cross the middle. I liked the comparison.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.

Goat are you serious? Are you writing off the team already? Lotta things change throughout the season. To criticize the building of the team is premature. I agree there has been wrong, bad decisions by the Shanny regime, but no organization is perfect, havent seen one yet. The "plugging" of holes in the certain areas of the team should last longer than the past.

In regards to the WRs, you gotta give guys more than 2 games together before you draw conclusions. Garcon, Morgan and Hankerson in 2 games have already adequately produced and if your not seeing the development of Robinson your quite frankly havent been paying attention. Moss is the savy veteran of the crew. I think that crew of receivers are a nice combo of size, catching ability and speed. You know its really hard to find Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, let alone Steve Smiths, Hakeem Nicks, and Roddy Whites.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Goat are you serious? Are you writing off the team already? Lotta things change throughout the season. To criticize the building of the team is premature. I agree there has been wrong, bad decisions by the Shanny regime, but no organization is perfect, havent seen one yet. The "plugging" of holes in the certain areas of the team should last longer than the past.

In regards to the WRs, you gotta give guys more than 2 games together before you draw conclusions. Garcon, Morgan and Hankerson in 2 games have already adequately produced and if your not seeing the development of Robinson your quite frankly havent been paying attention. Moss is the savy veteran of the crew. I think that crew of receivers are a nice combo of size, catching ability and speed. You know its really hard to find Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, let alone Steve Smiths, Hakeem Nicks, and Roddy Whites.

I too think our WR corp is nice

Admittedly I was very skeptical of Shanny and co from the beginning. Always thought Mike was the "luckiest" coach to ever win multiple rings. He had the best defense/defensive coordinator in Wade Phillips, a HOF QB he inherited. Mike undoubtedly gets credit for Terrel Davis and the run game. But overall, I don't see Mike ever being a contender again short of inheriting another SB caliber team. Maybe I'm wrong and that'd be nice.