Redskins Sign RB Ryan Grant/Place Roy Helu Jr. on IR

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

I know a lot of former players are suffering from their play on the gridiron during another era. But when they were hurt, they still played. In retrospect to today's players, those former players played through the injuries and the pain. I can't say the same for today's players. Today's players are sissies and I stand by that opinion.

(1) You realize the size, strength and speed of current players is beyond anything with which the "classic gridiron" guys dealt? (The Hogs were the heaviest O-line of their day. Today, they would be the smallest, by far, in the league).

(2) "Sissies"? That is just plain ignorant, moronic, obtuse - take your pick of adjectives describing someone who holds an opinion completely lacking in anything but apocryphal data for support. I am 50 year old guy - "back-in-the-day" I saw some players play with pain and some who refused. Your "opinion" is simply a personal bias lacking any factual data. Further, your rose-colored "back in my day" attitude denigrates the serious risks these guys put themself in week in and week out.

I stand by that opinion.

P.S.: John Riggins missed much of the 74 season due to an shoulder injury and the 77 season due to a sknee injury -- and then of course there's that contract thing in '80. Just saying...

P.P.S.: Being an old-timer, I am sure you remember Jim Brown calling Franco Harris a softie b/c he ran out of bounds to avoid contact and of course you recall that Harris didn't deny it but asserted he was just playing smart ...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by joeredskin

(1) you realize the size, strength and speed of current players is beyond anything with which the "classic gridiron" guys dealt? (the hogs were the heaviest o-line of their day. Today, they would be the smallest, by far, in the league).

(2) "sissies"? That is just plain ignorant, moronic, obtuse - take your pick of adjectives describing someone who holds an opinion completely lacking in anything but apocryphal data for support. I am 50 year old guy - "back-in-the-day" i saw some players play with pain and some who refused. Your "opinion" is simply a personal bias lacking any factual data. Further, your rose-colored "back in my day" attitude denigrates the serious risks these guys put themself in week in and week out.

I stand by that opinion.

P.s.: John riggins missed much of the 74 season due to an shoulder injury and the 77 season due to a sknee injury -- and then of course there's that contract thing in '80. Just saying...

P.p.s.: Being an old-timer, i am sure you remember jim brown calling franco harris a softie b/c he ran out of bounds to avoid contact and of course you recall that harris didn't deny it but asserted he was just playing smart ...

lol

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

(1) You realize the size, strength and speed of current players is beyond anything with which the "classic gridiron" guys dealt? (The Hogs were the heaviest O-line of their day. Today, they would be the smallest, by far, in the league).

(2) "Sissies"? That is just plain ignorant, moronic, obtuse - take your pick of adjectives describing someone who holds an opinion completely lacking in anything but apocryphal data for support. I am 50 year old guy - "back-in-the-day" I saw some players play with pain and some who refused. Your "opinion" is simply a personal bias lacking any factual data. Further, your rose-colored "back in my day" attitude denigrates the serious risks these guys put themself in week in and week out.

I stand by that opinion.

P.S.: John Riggins missed much of the 74 season due to an shoulder injury and the 77 season due to a sknee injury -- and then of course there's that contract thing in '80. Just saying...

P.P.S.: Being an old-timer, I am sure you remember Jim Brown calling Franco Harris a softie b/c he ran out of bounds to avoid contact and of course you recall that Harris didn't deny it but asserted he was just playing smart ...

The strength and the speed of the pro game has undoubtedly increased in the last two or three decades. Players have been delivering punishing, murderous hits to offensive players as far back as the 1960s. Jack Tatum, Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, were all fearsome hitters.

While the size and strength as well as speed of the players have increased, the impact of the hits is still the same. Of course players back then missed time, but in today's NFL, if a player is injured it's a given that he's going to miss some time. Back in 1981, Kellen Winslow Sr. played hurt for four quarters in a playoff game against the Miami Dolphins that the Chargers ultimately won. I haven't seen a player play injured with that degree or level of tenacity in the last 30 years. As recent as 2004, Terrell Owens played in the Super Bowl with a severely bum ankle that a lot of players today would miss the biggest game in football for because they can't suck it up and play.

Roy Helu Jr. is soft. He's a cream puff and you can't convince me otherwise.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The strength and the speed of the pro game has undoubtedly increased in the last two or three decades. Players have been delivering punishing, murderous hits to offensive players as far back as the 1960s. Jack Tatum, Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, were all fearsome hitters.

While the size and strength as well as speed of the players have increased, the impact of the hits is still the same. Of course players back then missed time, but in today's NFL, if a player is injured it's a given that he's going to miss some time. Back in 1981, Kellen Winslow Sr. played hurt for four quarters in a playoff game against the Miami Dolphins that the Chargers ultimately won. I haven't seen a player play injured with that degree or level of tenacity in the last 30 years. As recent as 2004, Terrell Owens played in the Super Bowl with a severely bum ankle that a lot of players today would miss the biggest game in football for because they can't suck it up and play.

Roy Helu Jr. is soft. He's a cream puff and you can't convince me otherwise.

Its his second year, lets hold off on that just yet. Guy rushed for 640 yards and caught another 370 in reception yards his rookie year. Every play he is in there giving it 110%. Thats just a little much, cream puff?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The strength and the speed of the pro game has undoubtedly increased in the last two or three decades. Players have been delivering punishing, murderous hits to offensive players as far back as the 1960s. Jack Tatum, Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, were all fearsome hitters.

While the size and strength as well as speed of the players have increased, the impact of the hits is still the same. Of course players back then missed time, but in today's NFL, if a player is injured it's a given that he's going to miss some time. Back in 1981, Kellen Winslow Sr. played hurt for four quarters in a playoff game against the Miami Dolphins that the Chargers ultimately won. I haven't seen a player play injured with that degree or level of tenacity in the last 30 years. As recent as 2004, Terrell Owens played in the Super Bowl with a severely bum ankle that a lot of players today would miss the biggest game in football for because they can't suck it up and play.

Roy Helu Jr. is soft. He's a cream puff and you can't convince me otherwise.

How can you say the impact of the hit is the same if the hit is coming from a stronger, faster, bigger player (as you yourself agree they are today)? - that makes no sense. Helu has a body which unfortunatley doesnt cooperate with him. Its a shame. Some guys are injury prone - i dont think that makes them cream puffs.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by punch it in

How can you say the impact of the hit is the same if the hit is coming from a stronger, faster, bigger player (as you yourself agree they are today)? - that makes no sense. Helu has a body which unfortunatley doesnt cooperate with him. Its a shame. Some guys are injury prone - i dont think that makes them cream puffs.

Have you seen films of Dick Butkus hit players? Butkus played at 6'3 245, and was a very powerful hitter. Regardless if the year is 1968 or if the year is 2012, a 245 pound man is a 245 pound man. If Butkus played in today's NFL, his hits would carry the same weight as it did in the time that he played. Jack Tatum was 5'10 200 pounds and without a doubt THE MOST ferocious hitter in NFL history. He once paralyzed a man from the waist down on the gridiron(Darryl Stingley).

The pro game has always been violent. Although the players today are stronger and faster, there were those players way back when who undoubtedly could play with the same viciousness in today's NFL.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Have you seen films of Dick Butkus hit players? Butkus played at 6'3 245, and was a very powerful hitter. Regardless if the year is 1968 or if the year is 2012, a 245 pound man is a 245 pound man. If Butkus played in today's NFL, his hits would carry the same weight as it did in the time that he played. Jack Tatum was 5'10 200 pounds and without a doubt THE MOST ferocious hitter in NFL history. He once paralyzed a man from the waist down on the gridiron(Darryl Stingley).

The pro game has always been violent. Although the players today are stronger and faster, there were those players way back when who undoubtedly could play with the same viciousness in today's NFL.

Yup Butkus was vicious.
Ray Lewis is a sissy.

If your point is the game has always been violent. I agree - it's one of the reasons I like it.

If your point is that yesterday's players were tougher than today's player. I disagree and believe your suffering from "old man back in the day syndrome". When comparing pre-mega NFL to today's Super-Powered-Entertainment-Driven-Mega NFL, there are lots more things going into these decisions. In part, there is a heightened awareness of how you can be crippled for life after playing the game for 10 years. Does this result in more caution by player? yes. Does having this foresight mean the player lacks toughness? No. I would suggest they are independent of each other. Also, 20 years ago (pre-CBA, Mega-NFL) players were cheap and disposable. Now, not so much. Often times the players aren't the ones making the decision, owners and coaches have too much invested in these guys to let them risk playing with injury. [Show me any comment by Helu indicating he is happy to be going to IR - bet you can't].

If your point is that Helu is a sissy/cream puff. I disagree and say the jury is still out. He apparently had a serious achilles injury over the summer and tried battling through it. Playing at this level, however, requires a performance level slightly higher than that required of safety on a high school football team ... oops, excuse me a starting safety. An injury that slows Helu down a step or two makes him a pedestrian back at best. [ BTW - I too had a foot injury and, while I could do all sorts of mundane workaday sh** and play some back yard football, if I needed speed or quickness, it simply wasn't happening. It wasn't the pain, it was just the foot didn't work right].

Ultimately, just like their have always been vicious hitters, there have always been "tough" guys. Look at Lewis, while I don't particularly like the guy, no doubt he is one of the toughest meanest SOB's in sports. Toughness? Let's talk London Fletcher. Sorry, you got your "back when I was a kid" glasses on which carefully ignore the hundreds of Helu type guys from the 50's-80's b/c they didn't stand out.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If your point is that yesterday's players were tougher than today's player. I disagree and believe your suffering from "old man back in the day syndrome".

Hahahaha.
My Dad has this.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Have you seen films of Dick Butkus hit players? Butkus played at 6'3 245, and was a very powerful hitter. Regardless if the year is 1968 or if the year is 2012, a 245 pound man is a 245 pound man. If Butkus played in today's NFL, his hits would carry the same weight as it did in the time that he played. Jack Tatum was 5'10 200 pounds and without a doubt THE MOST ferocious hitter in NFL history. He once paralyzed a man from the waist down on the gridiron(Darryl Stingley).

The pro game has always been violent. Although the players today are stronger and faster, there were those players way back when who undoubtedly could play with the same viciousness in today's NFL.

I may be 41 years old, but I have seen footage of all these guys. Listen I dont want to get hit by Butkus or Ray Lewis. Back than the nutritional science and sports science wasnt what it is today. Training facilities werent what they are today. alot of the guys back than probably had to work in the off season and couldnt train all year long like todays athletes. That being said on a pound for pound basis - yes - I fear the speed, power, and hits of todays NFL more than back than. I never said if Butkus was around today he wouldnt be just as good. But he isnt - if he was this would be a one sided argument.
Also, I dont think that paralyzing a guy makes you ferocious - Stingley was hit in the wrong place - he was unlucky.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

(1) You realize the size, strength and speed of current players is beyond anything with which the "classic gridiron" guys dealt? (The Hogs were the heaviest O-line of their day. Today, they would be the smallest, by far, in the league).

(2) "Sissies"? That is just plain ignorant, moronic, obtuse - take your pick of adjectives describing someone who holds an opinion completely lacking in anything but apocryphal data for support. I am 50 year old guy - "back-in-the-day" I saw some players play with pain and some who refused. Your "opinion" is simply a personal bias lacking any factual data. Further, your rose-colored "back in my day" attitude denigrates the serious risks these guys put themself in week in and week out.

I stand by that opinion.

P.S.: John Riggins missed much of the 74 season due to an shoulder injury and the 77 season due to a sknee injury -- and then of course there's that contract thing in '80. Just saying...

P.P.S.: Being an old-timer, I am sure you remember Jim Brown calling Franco Harris a softie b/c he ran out of bounds to avoid contact and of course you recall that Harris didn't deny it but asserted he was just playing smart ...

Joe, you got so excited with 'obtuse' and 'apocryphal', that you followed it up immediately with 'i am 50 year old guy'. you could have spared one of the a's in apocryphal and paid it forward to your next sentence.

That said, i agree.

[Monksdown]

My favorite part is the quote about the guy that was on the side lines crying after a hit: 'i dont know who i am!' hahaha. Not fast, but hard hitting.

Butkus:

Hall of Famer Dick Butkus Highlight Reel - YouTube