Around the NFL...Week 4 Style

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

The problem with this line of thinking is that Walsh only won with Montana, Noll only won with Bradshaw, Jimmy Johnson only won with Aikman, Belichik only won with Brady, ect... The list goes on. And a lot of people believe that those teams could have won as constructed with a lot of other coaches at the helm.

If the point is that Joe Gibbs was a great coach because of 3 SB's with 3 different QB' and RB's, then im with you 100%.

If the point is that the only coaches who are considered good coaches have to have won SB's with high schoolers to prove that they can outcoach the other sideline. Under that scenario, there is no such thing as a good coach, they are all terrible.

I dont believe the problem is Shanny the coach. I believe the problem is Shanny the GM. Its easy to look outcoached when other teams are more talented than yours. I figured it would take several years after Vinny left office to make up for his mistakes, but its year 3, and we still have massive holes all over the place. Allen needs to have that final say on player acquisition imo.

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.

Editing to add: Stud qb... bad defenses... Kinda sounds like Belichik the last few years

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.

You claimed that the GM in Denver was the problem, not Shanahan. At least that was the tone I got from it. All Denver personell decisions were Shanahans, and you cannot argue otherwise, cause it just ain't true m8. I dont care if there was a GM there, every player on that squad had the Mike Shanahan seal of approval.

Just think of it like this. Okay, the Broncos were like 6 games over .500 for 11 seasons after Elway left. Okay, great.

But the fact is that the Redskins won more playoff games than the Broncos did during that stretch. That is pathetic. I think the cowgirls did as well. Again, pathetic. THE RAIDERS won 5 playoff games during that span. Mike shanahan only had 3 appearances..........

I just think that people give him a little more credit than he is due.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

You claimed that the GM in Denver was the problem, not Shanahan. At least that was the tone I got from it. All Denver personell decisions were Shanahans, and you cannot argue otherwise, cause it just ain't true m8. I dont care if there was a GM there, every player on that squad had the Mike Shanahan seal of approval.

Just think of it like this. Okay, the Broncos were like 6 games over .500 for 11 seasons after Elway left. Okay, great.

But the fact is that the Redskins won more playoff games than the Broncos did during that stretch. That is pathetic. I think the cowgirls did as well. Again, pathetic. THE RAIDERS won 5 playoff games during that span. Mike shanahan only had 3 appearances..........

I just think that people give him a little more credit than he is due.

was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach

The above is the exact line I typed. How do you claim that that line puts the blame on everyone but Shanny?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.

Editing to add: Stud qb... bad defenses... Kinda sounds like Belichik the last few years

Also worth noting the AFC West division was putrid for most of Shanahan's tenure in Denver. If reg season wins are what you want, well I still don't see how Mike is your guy lol, but he's a dud in the playoffs since Elway retired. Point is sure he won reg season games in Denver but any Bronco fan will tell you, rather adamantly in my family's case, that those were not...competitive...teams.

Also, how on earth do you compare Belichick to Shanahan???? Bill took that team to the Superbowl and nearly won, whereas Mike can't even muster a winning season.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Also worth noting the AFC West division was putrid for most of Shanahan's tenure in Denver. If reg season wins are what you want, well I still don't see how Mike is your guy lol, but he's a dud in the playoffs since Elway retired. Point is sure he won reg season games in Denver but any Bronco fan will tell you, rather adamantly in my family's case, that those were not...competitive...teams.

Also, how on earth do you compare Belichick to Shanahan???? Bill took that team to the Superbowl and nearly won, whereas Mike can't even muster a winning season.

I didnt compare Shanny to Belichick. I compared the comment that the Skins have a good offense and bad defense to what the Patriots have had lately. Of course Belichick never wins anything without a massive lucky 6th round pick that no one, including Belichick, thought would amount to much of anything. Tom Brady says hi...

And the putrid AFC west was in SB's and AFC championship games with former Redskins QB Gannon as a Raider. If thats Putrid, then we are back to needing 20 undefeated seasons and 20 SB's in a row to consider anything Shanny does here a success.

[mredskins]

As far as CLE goes if you dont think they are on par with us as far as sucking goes lets make a apples to apples comparison. How did each team fare against CIN?

They suck and we suck. IMO CLE seems like the better two when comparing the two.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

Every Bronco fan? Knew something.....?
......like every Redskin fan....? Knows something....?
Fans KNOW exactly whatever Coach-speak the team Decides they can....know. Nothing more. Thinking otherwise is......absurd.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

Word to this, among my family in Denver Shanahan is practically a four letter word. Elway on the other hand is still seen as THE MAN.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Word to this, among my family in Denver Shanahan is practically a four letter word. Elway on the other hand is still seen as THE MAN.

How's....Reeves in Denver?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Word to this, among my family in Denver Shanahan is practically a four letter word. Elway on the other hand is still seen as THE MAN.

Could you ask your family in Denver what they think of Dan Reeves? The guy that couldnt win with Elway yet seems to be considered a good coach by most people, including what Denver fans I have talked to.

Edit: Sniped by Hog1...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Could you ask your family in Denver what they think of Dan Reeves? The guy that couldnt win with Elway yet seems to be considered a good coach by most people, including what Denver fans I have talked to.

Edit: Sniped by Hog1...

I've heard em compare Reeves to Marty Schottenheimer (spelling) as a guy who could see talent and build a hell of a roster but not see it through to the end. For my own perspective I felt like Schotteheimer got in his own way come the playoffs...maybe similar with Reeves?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I've heard em compare Reeves to Marty Schottenheimer (spelling) as a guy who could see talent and build a hell of a roster but not see it through to the end. For my own perspective I felt like Schotteheimer got in his own way come the playoffs...maybe similar with Reeves?

So the guy that couldnt break through with that STUD QB is not a four letter word, but the guy who broke through, not once, but twice is a four letter word. Interesting...

Something else happened for Denver to hate Shanny this bad. Did he cuss out fans and in general be a douche there or something?