Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley

[JoeRedskin]

Congratulations to the Goat. First poster I have ever placed on my ignore list in eight years. Every time his name shows up, I'll just assume he has posted some variation on "Shanahan sucks" and go from there.

But then I am just a sycophantic apologist after all.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.
...

as a general skeptic of the media myself, I hear what you are trying to say, the only problem is it's not the right logical progression. Assuming the NFL and media outlets have branded Griffin the next Golden Goose, they would as you say minimize negative stories about him. The next logical step is to find the best scapegoat to put the blame on. In Washington over the years Snyder obviously would have been a perfect target, alas he has successfully backed off so that wouldn't stick. so next would be the Shanahans, and their playcalling. In fact, you could say McNabb got his job in part to take that role should it become necessary to protect Griffin and throw the Shanahans under the bus. But, when an offense is consistently ranking in the top, and is showcasing the Golden Goose's talent as rookie of the week talent nearly every week, the media hasn't felt the need to lambast the playcalling. It is running smmothly enough that the Golden Goose is having fun, and us fans ought to be enjoying it as well.

[JoeRedskin]

Historically, it seems to me, dynasties get created with a mix of two things - great coaching and great QBs. Sometimes it's more QB than coach. Other times the reverse. This is true even before the modern era (Paul Brown/Otto Graham, Luckman/Halas, Flaherty/Baugh).

Seven games into this season, it appears we have one-half of the equation in RGIII. Shanahan has shown he can be the other half but the question is can he be that again.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Historically, it seems to me, dynasties get created with a mix of two things - great coaching and great QBs. Sometimes it's more QB than coach. Other times the reverse. This is true even before the modern era (Paul Brown/Otto Graham, Luckman/Halas, Flaherty/Baugh).

Seven games into this season, it appears we have one-half of the equation in RGIII. Shanahan has shown he can be the other half but the question is can he be that again.

Thank you for this. Goat you should really un-ignore him to read this. Lol. This is so true. The truth of the matter is that we all know RG-3 has shown he is quite capable of being a championship quarterback, or so it would seem after 7 frikkin games - wow. Shanny definitely still has something to prove and even most of the "apologists" have agreed that if the team is not a winning team by 2013-14 that maybe the game has passed him by.
Also I want to add that its not as simple as sitting here and going - walsh/ montana - bellicheck/ brady. Lets not forget that without a great gm that niners team isnt as good or what Beathard did for the skins. Everybody is forgetting key little areas of football teams that ALSO contribute to winning championships. The Chicago Bears in 85 and the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 were won because of DEFENSE. The Steel Curtain? The New York Giants vs Pats Version 1. The Skins had a dominant o-line that carried three different qb's to three super bowl titles. Its not so black and white as a coach and a qb.


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[That Guy]

hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by That Guy

hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.

Quite the point.

It kinda feels good to know that if there is one exception to the "being a great coach, you still can't do much without a stud QB" policy, its our own joe gibbs, who in his second term, equaled in three years the # of playoff wins that Shanahan had over a 12 season period after his stud QB retired. I think that I might go so far as to say that even if we go to the playoffs this year, Shanahan still has not impressed.

With Elway, 3 straight years of deep playoff runs, 2 being super bowl victories.

The next 14 years = 1 playoff victory with no Elway or RG3

RG3's first year - Playoffs??????

See a "possible" prevailing theme here? Even going farther, Shanahan sucked eggs with Los Angeles for 2 years. Guess what? Jay Shroeder was his QB, Bo Jackson was his RB. Still didn't sniff the playoffs his first two years. Then, for 4 straight years upon coming to the Broncos, he has wonderful success. Then Elway retires, and he is a below average coach, whom the fan base in Denver hated so much and thought he was so bad, they were calling for the guys head his last 4 years there. And this is the coach that won 2 straight super bowls for them........Maybe the Denver fan base knew a little secret that noone else knew. That their long time coach was propped up legacy wise and career wise by John Elway, and after him, a ridiculously weak AFC West (regular season champs, postseason chumps). = OVERRATED.

If we do sneak into the playoffs, I still believe its due to RG3's will, and not Shanahans genius. I believe it would be in spite of Shanahan. But thats just MHO, and I will still root for our team.

LOVE YA JOE!!!!!!!!

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Quite the point.

It kinda feels good to know that if there is one exception to the "being a great coach, you still can't do much without a stud QB" policy, its our own joe gibbs, who in his second term, equaled in three years the # of playoff wins that Shanahan had over a 12 season period after his stud QB retired. I think that I might go so far as to say that even if we go to the playoffs this year, Shanahan still has not impressed.

Might as well expand that out to be that if Shanny wins 5 SB's in a row, you wont be impressed. You dont like Shanny, so it will be all RG3 if we do.

With Elway, 3 straight years of deep playoff runs, 2 being super bowl victories.

The next 14 years = 1 playoff victory with no Elway or RG3

RG3's first year - Playoffs??????

See a "possible" prevailing theme here?

Yes, there is a prevailing theme. Stud QB's make a helluva difference. Does these even need to be explained?

If we do sneak into the playoffs, I still believe its due to RG3's will, and not Shanahans genius. I believe it would be in spite of Shanahan. But thats just MHO, and I will still root for our team.

LOVE YA JOE!!!!!!!!

Oh look, more of the same. Again, you guys keep wanting us to ignore that most of what are considered great coaches won with great QB's. Yet you refuse to "see a prevailing theme" yourself.

You dropped in an edit:

Even going farther, Shanahan sucked eggs with Los Angeles for 2 years. Guess what? Jay Shroeder was his QB, Bo Jackson was his RB. Still didn't sniff the playoffs his first two years. Then, for 4 straight years upon coming to the Broncos, he has wonderful success. Then Elway retires, and he is a below average coach, whom the fan base in Denver hated so much and thought he was so bad, they were calling for the guys head his last 4 years there. And this is the coach that won 2 straight super bowls for them........Maybe the Denver fan base knew a little secret that noone else knew. That their long time coach was propped up legacy wise and career wise by John Elway, and after him, a ridiculously weak AFC West (regular season champs, postseason chumps). = OVERRATED.

Are you actually calling Jay Schroeder a great QB? Ok you just lost all credibility. He was good for a year, then teams realized that all he could do was throw 50 yarders. He threw bullets for short passes and receivers always had trouble with them. Even McNabb could throw a screen, Schroeder could not. All he could do was chuck it deep down field. He was horrible as a QB, and once teams realized that you just drop 4 people 40 yards deep and use the other 7 to stop the run, Schroeder was never the same again. He had a tiny run where DC's didnt realize he couldnt throw anything except the bomb, a year later, Schroeder was done for in the NFL.

As to the Denver fan base being so intelligent. Werent they calling Tebow the next Elway? I thought so!! Tell me why im supposed to think that someone in Denver, other than Elway, has a clue about football. Btw, ask Elway about Shanny, the only guy in Denver with half a brain when it comes to football disagrees with your assessment. So if you choose to keep bringing them up, make sure you also claim that Tebow is the 2nd greatest QB ever behind Elway. Denver fans will.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Might as well expand that out to be that if Shanny wins 5 SB's in a row, you wont be impressed. You dont like Shanny, so it will be all RG3 if we do.



Yes, there is a prevailing theme. Stud QB's make a helluva difference. Does these even need to be explained?



Oh look, more of the same. Again, you guys keep wanting us to ignore that most of what are considered great coaches won with great QB's. Yet you refuse to "see a prevailing theme" yourself.

You could look at it like that, and you could look at it like this.

-Stan Humphries
-Rich Gannon
-Drew Bledsoe
-Chris Chandler
-Neil O'Donnell
-Steve McNair
- Trent Dilfer
- Rex Grossman
- Kerry Collins
- Brad Johnson
- Jake Delhomme
- Donovan McNabb
- Matt Hasselback
- Jeff Hostetler
- Mark Rypien
- Jim Kelly
- Doug Williams
- Tony Eason
- Jim Mcmahon
- Joe Theismann
- David Woodley
- Boomer Esiason
- Ken Anderson


Since 1981, All these quarterbacks either got to a Super Bowl or WON a super bowl. In my opinion, not many of these guys are a "world beater" type quarterback, every one of them successful, no doubt. Many of the QB's listed had great coaches, many didn't. Shanahan himself has coached two of the QB's on this list, but not during their Super bowl appearances of course. Point is, to be considered great, there are plenty of opportunities to get to the big game, especially if you have been coaching since 1987 in a head coaching capacity. Plenty of opportunities to make yourself stand out from the crowd. I think its quite telling, that.......

- during 4 years with Elway, 3 playoff appearances and 2 superbowl wins. 7 playoff wins.

Now Fast forward to October 2012, and look back.

- In the cumulative years without Elway, 15 1/2 seasons in a head coaching capacity (entire career), he has a total of ONE (1) playoff victory


I was excited like most when he took the job over from horny zorny. I mean, Mike Shanahan replacing Jim Zorn? YES PLEASE!!!!!!! But now that I take some time to step back, and look at what he has done over his career, and what he has done here, I'm sorry. I think this MF'er stinks. I also think that for a forward looking program with a huge star in the making, I really hope that Dan Snyder is already searching for his replacement. I don't know if he can find one, I sure hope so. Mike Shanahan is just way overrated. Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe my time at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs has swayed my opinion a bit, because during my time there from 2001 - 2009, all I heard on AM sports radio is hate for this guy, and the oh so frequent rant on how he should have been fired long ago. Like I said, I think that the fans in Denver had a dirty little secret on Shanahan.

The secret is that he is not that good.



(Thanks for listening to my rant)

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

You could look at it like that, and you could look at it like this.

- Trent Dilfer
- Brad Johnson
- Jeff Hostetler
- Mark Rypien
- Doug Williams
- Jim Mcmahon
- Joe Theismann

fixed it, here are the actual non world beating qb winners. it wasn't really about getting there. notice 3 are gibbs, 2 had insanely good defenses, and the last non world beating qb to win a super bowl did so over 10 years ago.

great qbs make all the difference.

that said, can you guys please stop trolling every single thread and wasting everyone's time. you don't like shanny, we get it, really, we do. unless you've got something new or worthwhile to add, please just stop. it's annoying.


as for cooley, welcome back.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by That Guy

hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.

Look at how parcells had more success with belleckeck than he did without him.


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[punch it in]

It is not always stud QB's! My God. Phil Simms, Vince Mcmahon, Trent Dilfer, Joe T, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson. Thats just off the top of my head. Some coaches have won in this league without stud qb's. Belichik was the mastermind behind the Giants first superbowl victory. Shanny is a great judge of running backs his ZBS is genius when you look at the utter lack of talent that he has on his offensive lines. There are coaches that win without stud qb's though!!


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[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

It is not always stud QB's! My God. Phil Simms, Vince Mcmahon, Trent Dilfer, Joe T, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson. Thats just off the top of my head. Some coaches have won in this league without stud qb's. Belichik was the mastermind behind the Giants first superbowl victory. Shanny is a great judge of running backs his ZBS is genius when you look at the utter lack of talent that he has on his offensive lines. There are coaches that win without stud qb's though!!


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Phil Simms was actually a damn good QB. The WWE president was never a QB.

No one denies the defense that McMahon (the bears QB), Dilfer, or Johnson played with, they are some of the greatest defenses ever. The others are Joe Gibbs QB's, which Ive already stated is the greatest coach ever due to the fact that he could win without stud QB's. But winning without stud QB's is far and few between in the NFL, especially the current pass first NFL.

Although by saying that Belichick was the mastermind is to say that Parcells was a terrible coach, so yeah, cant say that I agree. I seriously doubt Parcells was just along for the Belichickian ride in NY. Something tells me Parcells was the main influence there.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by punch it in

It is not always stud QB's! My God. Phil Simms, Vince Mcmahon, Trent Dilfer, Joe T, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson. Thats just off the top of my head. Some coaches have won in this league without stud qb's. Belichik was the mastermind behind the Giants first superbowl victory. Shanny is a great judge of running backs his ZBS is genius when you look at the utter lack of talent that he has on his offensive lines. There are coaches that win without stud qb's though!!


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It's the truth, all of it. Good work punch.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Oh the opinions of the internet.

Its a big research bank. It is ok to use it to back up your statements or form opinions based on said facts???


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[SmootSmack]

Here's his coaching record against every team going into this year

http://redskins.studiotigaapps.net/m...ahan__mike.pdf